SA 'Static' Swastika

[Erno]

David, those markings are unusual. Who do you suppose the maker is? My list shows that M1/57 corresponds with M. Winter, München, but I've never heard of that firm manufacturing buckles. Would it be safe to assume that it correlates to M4/57 or M5/57 (Julius Maurer and Paul Schumacher, respectively), or does it perhaps refer to some other numbering system?

[weller]

Good info, and some nice buckles guys. I'd probably collect more SA buckles if more were available with RZM markings etc, just do not see many around for sale.

[David North]

I don't believe you showed this one on the sticky thread

You are quite correct Kirby and my apologies. I will and when time permits add to our SA data base.

Regards,

David

[David North]

David, those markings are unusual. Who do you suppose the maker is? My list shows that M1/57 corresponds with M. Winter, München, but I've never heard of that firm manufacturing buckles. Would it be safe to assume that it correlates to M4/57 or M5/57 (Julius Maurer and Paul Schumacher, respectively), or does it perhaps refer to some other numbering system?

Dear Erno

You have raised a very interesting question.

The SA buckle that I have shown is the only one that I am aware of. There must be others in collections, however for myself at least, it is an oddity item.

Mention 57 to an SS buckle collector however and ....!

I may be wrong, however I am sure that the jury is still out as to who manufactured the 57 marked SS. Fortunately, it is a subject that does not really interest me.

It has been suggested that Winter was the manufacturer. Having said that, there are also suggestions that Winter was merely a distributor for another manufacturer, however who still chose to mark the buckle with the Winter allocated, first series RZM code.

Regards,

David

[David North]

One of the forums past discussions about Martin Winter.


SS buckle "57"


Interesting perhaps for the images, rather than the nonsense that I then wrote.

Regards,

David

[weller]

The only SA items I have so far, and on a 'buying' break so just posting. The canteens are early 1934 FA Mfg code RZM marked, the Tiger is also an early one.
Cheers, Prosit...

Jeff

[weller]

For those interested in these early 1934 political/SA canteens, member Hugo Rietzel explained the FA (pre RZM) codes as follows:

FA = manufacturer of canteen / cookware / drinking mug. Manufacturer of this subdivision ( FA ), use this code until mid / end of 1934!
The coding is structured as follows: FA - 6 = Manufacturers / Esslingen, Wagner GmbH 34 = Year of manufacture

Jeff

[Guido]

Not to be forgotten chaps that Fritz Assmann did not have the exclusive rights and the sole prerogative of manufacturing the SA buckle with an "upright" swastika.

Here is one that I have and where some aspects will strike a chord to those collectors who have a predilection for nickle silver SS buckles.

Regards,

David

David

I saw your interesting static swastika SA buckle just this minute. What a nice piece!

I have no doubt that your "RZM 57" marked SA buckle was made by Martin Winter!
The quite long and tall prongs (I bet they are nickel over brass and nonmagnetic), the flat rivet head and the uneven way they stamped the circle around the number 57 are typically M. Winter features. The number 57 on your SA buckle fits also very good into the theory that this is the first but uncorrect M1 RZM code to their SS buckle (they changed later to 63 as we know). And don't forget the nickelsilver DAF/ Werkschar buckle, wich can be clearly assigned to M. Winter because of the M4/2 RZM code.

Best,
Guido

[Erno]

Dear Erno

You have raised a very interesting question.

The SA buckle that I have shown is the only one that I am aware of. There must be others in collections, however for myself at least, it is an oddity item.

Mention 57 to an SS buckle collector however and ....!

I may be wrong, however I am sure that the jury is still out as to who manufactured the 57 marked SS. Fortunately, it is a subject that does not really interest me.

It has been suggested that Winter was the manufacturer. Having said that, there are also suggestions that Winter was merely a distributor for another manufacturer, however who still chose to mark the buckle with the Winter allocated, first series RZM code.

Regards,

David

Thank you for these excellent photographs and information! I've seen those 57 marked SS buckles, but I haven't done much research into that subject so I just assumed that the number represented M4/57 or M5/57.

[weller]

I recently saw this nicely marked SA style belt for a good price, and it arrived today. I tried several buckles and this SA buckle fit like a glove and both the belt and buckle share a similar amount of wear...makes a nice match