Nickel RZM 63

**Ben Evans** · 03-25-2016, 07:20 PM

And with the RZM 57

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 03-25-2016 07:20 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**harryamb2** · 03-25-2016, 07:34 PM

**Ben Evans** · 03-25-2016, 07:45 PM

The problem is this debate is long standing, did one buy from the other, did both buy from a supplier, through all the theories and speculation there is no hard evidence as yet as to who made what.

**weller** · 03-25-2016, 08:00 PM

by Ben Evans

No arguement from me Jeff on that one, do you have a side profile shot if the buckle is yours? Also a shot of both pin heads?

Extra pics as requested

**Ben Evans** · 03-25-2016, 08:04 PM

Thanks Jeff, its night here, I will try the flash and see if I can get anything decent

**weller** · 03-25-2016, 08:07 PM

by Ben Evans

The problem is this debate is long standing, did one buy from the other, did both buy from a supplier, through all the theories and speculation there is no hard evidence as yet as to who made what.

I've read one of those debates before

**Ben Evans** · 03-26-2016, 09:34 AM

Here close ups of mine

**Ben Evans** · 03-26-2016, 09:43 AM

Here are mine and Jeff pics together, so you have the Steinhaur & Luck SS buckle RZM 63 and the M Winter DAF buckle RZM M4/2, who came first? The chicken or the egg? A long old debate but at some point hopefully it will emerge with evidence as to who actually made the buckles.

**Ben Evans** · 03-26-2016, 10:50 AM

by yellow12

Hello,

Ben, a very beautyfull buckle !

Questionable the contractnumber 63 is real to St.&L. ?

Some other collectors told that can also be a M.Winter with later SS contraktnumber .........

Markus, very questionable and trying to work out a time line for this is a night mare. I have just asked Wim Saris if he has any info at all that we can use. The RZM Licence came to effect May 1934 (according to the Angolia book) I have asked Wim for info on the RZM 63 contract and when that might have come info effect. Also on the buckle that Jeff has shown IMO the M4/2 markings was added at a later date. The DAF was formed 1933 so was this nickel buckle of Jeffs one of the earlier buckles remarked when the M4 contract came in effect? It is plain to see that these buckles were made by the same maker but the million $ is which one

**Wilhelm Saris** · 03-26-2016, 11:47 AM

The Werkschar (not DAF) buckle did not appear before August 1935, as then the uniform was sanctioned.
Manufacturing regulations were published shortly thereafter (September 1935), the use of "unedle Metalle"
(nickel-silver) was not allowed, according to orders from March 1935. For a short while this was still done and
then aluminum Werkschar buckles appeared. The RZM-code M4 was required.

For a very short time the buckle with cogwheel was known as Arbeitsfrontkoppelschloss (only with the
introduction-order), soon thereafter it got its final name Werkscharkoppelschloss.