SS Original ?

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Does anyone have clear evidence to support that Martin Winter was actually a manufacturer per se ? Ignoring the "markings", did Winter physically produce or instead, was the company merely a distributor and sales outlet ?

It is legitimate to ask this question since "granted" cannot apply to the anything done during the Third Reich! BUT there is something else we cannot forget either: if manufacture and quality control of SS belt buckles were sharing many similarities with what was set for other german belt buckles, production and distribution was strictly controled by SS orders. The RZM was just in charge to be sure makers were applying those strict orders. Documents as early as october 1935 are very strict on this subject.
In other words, what was, or should I say could be, true for let's say HJ or SA buckles, could not be considered as a potential for SS buckles.
On the other end, since those buckles were probably made and sold before 1934, then (some) remaining inventory re-stamped with RZM numbers later, the uncertainity potential is still a valid issue.

[David North]

Hello Jean-Pierre

Perhaps my question was put badly.

For the moment, completely forget about Martin Winter and SS buckles.

Does anyone have any buckle whatsoever where there is clear evidence that it was MANUFACTURED by him/them ?

Regards,

David

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Does anyone have any buckle whatsoever where there is clear evidence that it was MANUFACTURED by him/them ?

What feature couldl be taken as a clear evidence?

[David North]

Jean-Pierre

For myself at least, what I consider to be the "Martin Winter Enigma", remains just that - something for the moment that cannot be explained.

Winter of course is not in splendid isolation here, insofar as anyone who reads through the RZM M4 listing encounters names of companies which are (I would suggest) quite unfamiliar and do not exactly trip off the tongue as recognised and documented by product, buckle manufacturers.

I suppose that if we applied some elements of the litmus test from all of us regarding that clear evidence is available that Assmann and Overhoff manufactured belt buckles (assume that we all agree that A and O&C were buckle manufacturers) then we may be on our way to explain what again is to myself, an interesting mystery.

Regards,

David

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

I agree that having a name listed on the RZM list does not make this name a producer. The RZM was listing just authorized makers and not makers in production. Many makers were just paying their RZM fee each year without producing nothing just to keep their right to produce opened.
But still my question: what can we use as strict evidence/proof? Everything is in jeopardy with the Third Reich. In fact, to be very honest, we should never use the affirmative with this period. We could speak/write about percentage of probabilities but never take anything as granted.