Thoughts on this SS RZM 57 buckle and belt?

**Ben Evans** · 08-29-2013, 11:04 PM

Good find Lenny at a very good price, even the wear on the belt looks good, would be a great if that turned out genuine (the markings that is) the icing on the cake so to speak

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 08-29-2013 11:04 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Lenny Warren** · 08-30-2013, 01:36 AM

You know, I've just googled "rzm 101/38 ss" and there's a fair few hits for ss leather with these marks, including on German auctions. I'm on my iPad so can't view some of them... I'm not an expert, but the wear in the belt and the stampings look good to me... Anyone advise me why they don't like the stampings and show me a real stamping???

**Lenny Warren** · 08-30-2013, 06:09 PM

I've been researching SS marked belts, apparently they are pretty rare. According to Nash..

"Belt leathers are sometimes found bearing SS issue marks. Genuine examples are rare and are usually marked similar to VA 401/43 SS or RZM 1257/44 SS which follows the format that mine is in, RZM 101/38 SS"

... he then goes on to describe the fakes, none of the indications are the same as this belt. I've found some other SS leather work with similar stamps, belts and shoulder straps, and a few belts on German auction houses etc. Can you explain what the tell tale signs are on this belt those who didn't like it? Just trying to work out what to look for. I must say the belt seems good, verdigris on the adjustment strap that matches the buckle, nice wear, stamping seems consistent with age and wear etc.

**yellow12** · 08-30-2013, 08:27 PM

Hello,

i found the same stamp on a belt in my collection and i also interest for more opinions ..............

Thoughts on this SS RZM 57 buckle and belt?

**Lenny Warren** · 08-30-2013, 08:49 PM

Thanks for posting that Markus, I'm just curious WHY folk think the stamp is fake, no-one has said why. If it's an unknown maker, that's fine, doesn't mean it's fake....

I want to learn, just saying stamp is fake doesn't help me know why it's fake if you know what I mean? I'm really starting to get into my buckles and keep trying to build my knowledge...

**Lenny Warren** · 09-02-2013, 03:57 PM

Anyone advise me why stamping is a fake? A few said it was dubious, but wondering what gives it away as dubious? I'm wondering if SS stamped belts are that rare hardly anyone has one to compare? Nice to see yellow12 has one with same stamping. Nash's book lists a few fake stamping numbers, but not 101/38.

**kirby** · 09-02-2013, 04:40 PM

Can't help you with the markings but JP might see your thread on WAF. He seem to know a lot about these. You also might search the equipment and dagger forums. I have seen SS stamped vertical hangers, sword hanger, ammo pouches, pony packs and other leather items.

About 10-15 years ago several original SS leather stamps were sold on Manions. They sold for big money. I would bet who ever bought them has been selling lots of SS marked items over the years.

**Lenny Warren** · 09-02-2013, 09:26 PM

by kirby

Can't help you with the markings but JP might see your thread on WAF. He seem to know a lot about these. You also might search the equipment and dagger forums. I have seen SS stamped vertical hangers, sword hanger, ammo pouches, pony packs and other leather items.

About 10-15 years ago several original SS leather stamps were sold on Manions. They sold for big money. I would bet who ever bought them has been selling lots of SS marked items over the years.

Cheers, will maybe PM JP...

That's the worry about stamps being out there, similar to buckle dies although probably harder to tell modern stamps on leather compared to contempary stamps.....

**Lenny Warren** · 09-08-2013, 11:18 PM

I've had a good friend look at this belt and the stamping. He's an experienced collector and leather worker, he looked at it under high magnification and is confident the stamp was there before the tears, cracks in the leather. You can see under high magnification that the tear's have distorted/removed part of the stamp rather than the stamp being on top of the tears. (if you see what I mean)

As no-one else has been able to give me a definite reason the stamping is fake, and going by books referring to these as mega rare, I'm happy that it's correct, or at least the stamp is older and consistent wth the wear on the belt.... It's not for sale, tis a keeper, and the price was superb even for the buckle on it's own, for me the belt is just the icing on the cake. Nash refers to these as mega rare, and I see no reason, or have not been convinced that it's a fake stamping.

Interesting Markus has the same stamping on an SS belt... Just for information, on the alloy hook, under the folded under leather, should there be an SS mark in the alloy?

**Ben Evans** · 09-09-2013, 07:03 AM

Depends on how early the belt is Lenny, not really my area but I think the earlier belt hooks had SS stampings on them, not sure about the later ones.