SE to hkp, when did the change start?

[Lidman]

Greetings!
Then the conclusion that the M40 model was produced until 1943 inclusive ..
It would be interesting to know the M40 was produced in parallel with the M42?
Or factory Sächsische Emaillier M42 began production in 1943?

I agree, would be good to know if they were both produced at the same time.
It would be unlikely IMO though.

Here is a link to my side stamped hkp M40 LW.
https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/steel...-hkp64-210290/

Brad.

[Schwerpunkt]

Does not seem logical that an M40 would be produced at the same time as an M42 , the idea behind the M42 is that it could be produced quicker because the edge didn't need to be rolled up thereby eliminating a step in the production process. I don't see added value in producing both.

[ObKrieger]

I agree with Frank. Although I wouldn't necessarily rule out the possibility that M42's and M40's could have been produced simultaneously for a very brief stretch of time while the factory lines were being reconfigured.

Quist of course produced M40's up until probably a few weeks until the war's end, when they decided to try out M42's for some reason...

[Lemeshko]

I fully agree with what has been said above ..
But the question is ... If the factory started production of the M42 in 1943, then as obsnit that all helmets low-numbered party-have a decal. This suggests that M42 hkp were produced before the abolition decals in 1943 ...
Therefore it is logical to assume that the transition SE on hkp as the beginning of production M42 - occurred in 1942 (before the abolition of decals)

But here again the question arises.
If a brand manufacturer and lot number was branded on the back of the skirt German helmets in 1943.
And on the M42 hkp mainly joint type of marking (except for the five-digit number of parties number 13754 Heer, № 13802 Heer, № 34652 Heer - brand manufacturer and lot number, separately).
There is an opposite conclusion-start the production of the M42 hkp was in 1943 ....
A lot of unknown for me?????...

[KradSpam]

The change in tooling might not have been throughout the factory on one day / between any lots being produced. I could see them being produced side by side just for practical reasons. Perhaps not for long, only days even, but it seems plausible.

Regarding the point made about lot numbers above - SE's numbers are not consecutive. Only ET in fact had consecutive lot numbers.

[LeonardoL]

A bit off, but what about ckl M40s? Did they ever exist

[Schwerpunkt]

A bit off, but what about ckl M40s? Did they ever exist

no

[Brian]

An interesting topic, the SE M40 to hkp M40 transition, which I discuss in the latest Revision 4 of my Lot Number book.

Helmet factories were ordered to begin tooling up for the M42 on 6 July 1942, with production to commence on 1 August 1942. Assuming that the M42 order was followed by all factories (except Quist), SE/hkp M40 production should have ceased and M42 production begun on roughly 1 August 1942.

In the lot number book, I surmise that both the SE M40 and hkp M40 were produced from just one lot number series beginning at lot# 1 starting with the SE factory mark. The SE mark was used at least until lot# 31486 when a change to the hkp factory mark occurred. The rest of M40 production to at least lot number 45558 used the hkp mark.

It is thought that during hkp M40 production, many old stock planchets (steel discs) marked with lower 'SE era' lot numbers but not yet with factory mark, were finally completed using the hkp factory mark.

Lot # 1 - 31486+ SE factory mark
Lot # 31485 - 45558+ hkp factory mark

Lot # 1 - 31486+ hkp factory mark (old stock 'SE era' planchets finally completed using the hkp mark)

With SE factory M40 production beginning on 21 March 1940 and lasting until 1 August 1942, (lot number 1 - 45558+) the 31486 mark coincides with October 1941, or the time of the suspected SE to hkp factory mark changeover. Component dates of SE M40 and hkp M40 production observed are 1940, 1941, and 1942 (liner bands, rivets, chinstraps). 1943 dates have not yet been seen.

A few lot numbers have been observed with both the SE and the hkp factory mark and the same metric shell size.

..M40 SE66 0086 SD LUFT ZSH SM CV

M40 hkp66 0086 SD LUFT ZSH, ZPG SM (OLD STOCK PLANCHET COMPLETED AFTER 10/41)


..M40 SE66 974 SD LUFT ZSH SV

M40 hkp66 974 SD LUFT ZSH SM CV (OLD STOCK PLANCHET COMPLETED AFTER 10/41)


..M40 SE64 1035 SD LUFT ZSH SV

M40 hkp64 1035 SD LUFT ZSH SM CV (OLD STOCK PLANCHET COMPLETED AFTER 10/41)


..M40 SE64 10023 SD HEER ZSH SV

M40 hkp64 10023 SD LUFT ZSH SM CV (OLD STOCK PLANCHET COMPLETED AFTER 10/41)


..M40 SE64 13746 SD HEER ZSH CV TO SD RAD

M40 hkp64 13746 SD LUFT ZSH SM CV (OLD STOCK PLANCHET COMPLETED AFTER 10/41)