HJ very early

**zeppelin** · 10-11-2014, 06:15 PM

Friends, I need your knowledge.
Your opinions on the buckle?

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-11-2014 06:15 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Ben Evans** · 10-11-2014, 08:46 PM

Very interesting buckle, 1st pattern Student Bund, look at the prongs very much like Berge and Nolte made prongs, wonder if they made the buckle?

**zeppelin** · 10-12-2014, 04:43 AM

Thanks Ben, will wait for more opinions.

**Gwar** · 10-12-2014, 04:49 AM

That's a first for me... G

**kirby** · 10-12-2014, 05:05 AM

Tough buckle to give an opinion on. I looked at a couple of these at the SOS. They were sold at the Herman Historical spring auction. I have a better feeling about this buckle than either of those. I think David North has a few of these and Chad Williams has several. Hopefully they will see this thread.

**yellow12** · 10-12-2014, 10:38 AM

Hello,

@Zeppelin , i'm not confortable with this buckle ........

The "roundel" looks a little bit like a cooper galvanic fake because some errors in the outlines .

Also the box IMO with the hook solderpoints will not be my friend ............ is it a nickel over steel buckle ?

Cooper was not the material they need made this roundels ..........must be brass or tombak .

Sorry , but i hope you have not bought it ..........

Here pictures from my older collektion . Sold it vor over 20 years and never saw one original again on market .........

**Gunny Hartmann** · 10-12-2014, 10:54 AM

by Gwar

That's a first for me... G

Me too!...

**zeppelin** · 10-12-2014, 02:08 PM

Thank You, Markus.
No, I didn't buy this buckle. Me too afraid of Nickel, in the net I found only brass, as your buckle.
I wrote a letter to Chad, but he has not answered me.
While I fear this buckle will wait for a response from him.

**Erno** · 10-12-2014, 02:55 PM

That's an interesting buckle. I have no experience with these, but it does look strange. The box reminds me of the postwar type more than anything.

By the way, the designation of these as first pattern Studentenbund buckles by the reference book is probably a mistake. There are several period photos of HJ boys wearing these buckles, and there's no evidence whatsoever that they were ever worn by the Studentenbund, other than the fact that the rhombus on the buckle looks vaguely similar to the N.S. Studentenbund symbol.

**David North** · 10-12-2014, 03:14 PM

This madly rare buckle has of course been known for many years and by the slightly misleading emblem design, has been historically and erroneously attributed to wear by fledgling members of the NS-Studentenbund. Erno is spot on as this is an early HJ buckle and has no official connection with the NS-Studentenbund.

Again, the buckle is madly rare and as such, it is somewhat difficult to conduct any authoritative research exercise, although Chad may be able to chip in.

I have 2 examples of this buckle and where each presents a different style of emblem and especially by the design of the swastika. One buckle I am confident is truly original and one is suspect and furthermore, has the style of emblem invariably found on those buckles which are questionable to say the least.

I will let the forum decide which is which.

Regards and best wishes,

David