M4/22 youth buckle in gold?

[John Brandon]

Any other photos/angles/closeups that could help?

Here is a fake one

[NcPaint]

A better shot ( any other angles or parts to focus on? )

The fake one you posted has different numbers and logo. IF mine is fake then its a much better quality. If this piece is real what would it be worth? Im guessing it must be somewaht valueable or it wouldnt be worth the trouble.

[John Brandon]

The fake one you posted has different numbers and logo.

It doesn't mater if it has different numbers, the fakers don't stick to one set of numbers.

I would wait for Ben, or JP if he's about?or maybe Ric...........................or ade

[Ben Evans]

I atcually like it, Officer buckles are not my thing I have never collected them, the markings on this one are quite normal, I will PM David North, he collects buckles like these

[soalebm]

wasnt the m4 a aluminium stamp

i dont like the rzm seems to be done by a dremel after the war

I'm with Ben, I like it also. I don't think the markings are post war dremel work.

[lach470]

I too like the look of it......I don't have a gold example like that - but for the sake of reference - here's my example made of cooper with silver plate or guilding.

Cheers!
Rob

[NcPaint]

Looks almost exactly like mine. Great pics thanks!

[NcPaint]

I atcually like it, Officer buckles are not my thing I have never collected them, the markings on this one are quite normal, I will PM David North, he collects buckles like these

Any luck?

[NcPaint]

Still nothing? Any estimated value? I've done some more searching, and found this buckle being sold for quite alot. Why is this particular buckle so valuable compared to other similar styles?

[David North]

This is an extremely interesting thread due the HJ Leaders buckle by Dicke (M4/22) when faked, being and in my opinion phenomenally difficult to detect.

All I can post is a few basic subjective indications I have seen on original examples, however it is more than likely that some of these points also exist on the ever better quality fakes.

For an original:-

The catch or hook tends to have a very slight striation or groove, running north to south. Incidentally, I do not think that there is any consistency or relevance on the positioning of the very distinctive RZM logo and M4/22 (under size RM letters with no cross bar to the Z and a slightly dropped M to the M4).

The fixed keeper has small dimples on the smaller section, which is crimped into place.

Claws are slightly curved and include small indentations, quite unlike those seen by Assmann.

Pin shroud is distinctly folded to display two very minor and mid point openings or gaps to the seam.

Hope that these subjective observations may be of use and actually, I think that the HJ Leaders buckle as first shown and posted is original.

Regards,

David