Uncommon buckle: early HJ design

[ErichK]

This is the only buckle I brought home from the SOS. I believe it's good and hope it proves to be so. Thoughts please

[ErichK]

The prongs come through the solder holes and then soldered where they meet. I have only found one other to compare it with.

[kirby]

Hello An interesting buckle, Was this the one Walter D. had. He always has a case full of nice buckles. I picked up a gold Lapo from him last year.

[Ben Evans]

Hi guys, this is a buckle that I have never owned or know nothing much about if I am honest. Just one thing that I have to ask, is there three solder points to this buckle? The first thing that struck me was that it actually looks like it has the three solder points that is found on fakes, and also the colour on the front looks artificially aged? Just my opinion guys if anyone can enlighten me or post other examples. I have compared this one to the one on the Collectors Guild for reference.

[David North]

Dear Erich

A very interesting buckle and as you know, the design for an early HJ rather than Studentenbund.

It is an early buckle and as such "unregulated" and up until now, I have seen 2 designs of the diamond by a slight variance to the size and style of the swastika.

There are however various documented methods of affixing the emblem to the box and usually with these long pins (not exclusive to this buckle), they enter through a single and central hole, to be bent and then soldered into place. The one that you have shown of course is quite different.

Unfortunately and in my opinion, I think that the buckle is a fake. If the brass box is the one that I am thinking of, then it is a well documented fake. Attached is a photo merge of a brass box which I know is fake and images of your buckle to support it. What do you think? The box has very distinct ears (one small and one large), is seen with nil to three drilled holes and is seen both with and without erroneous stampings.

In addition, I think that the buckle that you have shown displays signs of an attempted artificial ageing by an acid wash method.

Just my opinion.

Regards,

David

[ErichK]

Thanks for the reply's so far. I picked the buckle up from Ron Wolin who was set up by Bill Shea. Ben; there are the normal 2 holes for solder which have not been soldered. Instead, where the 2 prongs meet there is a fine dab of solder but no third hole.

[David North]

Perhaps somebody else could give an opinion on the buckle that Erich has so kindly shown?

Regards,

David

[jimm]

Looked at this buckle and found it very interesting , i always look on the german daggers buckle guide to check for designs and this one is on there and is shown as a studentenbund buckle adopted in 1933. Here is the link just incase it helps Buckle Guide (it is seen on the 15th row ist buckle on the left hand side , this is an old thread but such an interesting buckle that i thought it me be good to shed more light on it.

[Erno]

Looked at this buckle and found it very interesting , i always look on the german daggers buckle guide to check for designs and this one is on there and is shown as a studentenbund buckle adopted in 1933. Here is the link just incase it helps Buckle Guide (it is seen on the 15th row ist buckle on the left hand side , this is an old thread but such an interesting buckle that i thought it me be good to shed more light on it.

Some of the references say Studentenbund, but it's my understanding that there are period photos of these being worn in conjunction with an early HJ uniform.

[Erno]

Ben, one of your buckles is being used in 'Buckle Guide' to which Jimm has linked above. Did you give your consent for that? It's the Osang Heer.