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04-07-2011 05:23 AM
# ADS
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Re: Unmarked Painted Steel HJ Buckle: Opinions on Origins & Maker
Adam, as we discussed before at first glance I thought it might have been made by Overhoff, however with the differing colour and catch the only things similar now I have seen both together are the ears, strange how the catch is the Belgian type? Whoever made the buckle it is a nice piece and quite rare (in fact the only one I have seen)
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Re: Unmarked Painted Steel HJ Buckle: Opinions on Origins & Maker
He4y Adam, that Assmann theory is looking good
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Re: Unmarked Painted Steel HJ Buckle: Opinions on Origins & Maker
Adam
thank you for posting this buckle and starting this discussion. This for sure is a very interesting buckle! I also hold one in my collection, and your example is the third I have ever seen. There was a pretty beat up one on the Collectors Guild site in the recent past for sale.
There are many interesting details to this buckle.
1. it is an unknown eagle design
2. has a strange catch that is very similar to buckles that were made in Belgium
3. it is unmarked
4. it has curved prongs
I went through about 100 of my buckles (all of my nickel steel and painted steel) buckles to find a match for the eagle design, and came up with nothing. it has been suggested that this buckle could be Overhoff or Assmann. Why would either of these very prolific makers change the eagle design of their company to produce these buckles? Assmann used the same unmistakeable eagle for their production of HJ buckles from day one all the way through the zinc buckles at the end..
I authored a thread in 2004 that was about Belgian buckles and there are photos in that thread that show the narrow footed belgian catches that remind me of the catch on the Hj we are discussing. here is a link to the thread
wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75718
This buckle is unmarked... I hold 27 painted steel buckles in my collection. Of those 27 only 3 are unmarked... of those 3 , 2 have a known maker because of marked examples and identical matches to the eagle design, catch and claws (all the manufacturing traits) In this time period (painted steel) by order of the RZM , all buckles were to be marked with the protection mark of the RZM and the makers proper M4 code end of story.. Since I hold unmarked examples, we know that the manufacturers did not follow this to the T. But 99% of the painted steel buckles you encounter will be marked. The paint can fill in a lightly stamped mark, this is true, and Dr. Frank M4/23 is the most common maker that heavily overpainted their mark, but if you know where, and what to look for you can usually see traces of the mark. The fact that this buckle is unmarked leans me more towards the fact that this could be Belgian made as they were outside of RZM regulation and did not need to mark their buckles.
The buckle exhibits curved prongs.. This is a trait that was used by Assmann, and by the Belgian manufacturers. I have asked Adam to use some of my old Belgian photos and an Assmann example make a merge of the curved prongs for us for
comparison.. and we havent even started talking about the ears yet!!
I am leaning towards this buckle being made in Belgium, but am very interested in hearing the others opinions, and seeing all the comparison photos . This should be a very good discussion that we can all learn from!
these are the buckles that make our hobby fun and exciting!!
here are pics of my example of this buckle.
thanks
Chad
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