Luftwaffe Panzerkampfabzeichen... Need some opinions on this one...

[dzyner]

I came across this Luftwaffe Tank Badge with a lot that included an HJ armband, political armband and a large (burial) flag. All of the items in the lot were recovered about 30 years ago in someone's trash inside a tin box.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has experience with these particular badges, and can give me their honest opinion as to whether or not this is a good one.

Thanks for your help!!
Dzyner

[Bill T]

I dont think anyone will be able to tell you if its a good one or not since most believe these were never issued or produced for the Luftwaffe in ww2. I have never seen a period photo with one in wear, have you? I find it very interesting though, because they do seem to have similar construction points of a period badge. I have tried to search for photos, and proof that these existed, but to no avail yet. Maybe one day someone will find some proof, so I would hang on to it! I have also heard people claim to have seen these awards posted in soldbuchs! What are your thoughts on these?

Anyway......check this out!! I dunno???? D-196* Extremely Rare Document and Photo Grouping for an Exceptionally Well-Decorated Luftwaffe Paratrooper
If anyone was awarded this badge, it was him. Check out his TDB.

I believe this was awarded, but very seldomly. It is known that the Luftwaffe Close Combat Clasp was "awarded" but never produced. The recipients were given the Army/SS CCC to wear. So.....maybe they did make this! I just dont understand why it wouldnt be awarded or produced more often if it did exist?

[Adrian]

Any award with a catch like that is a post war fake, commonly associated with Souval but I'm sure other makers used it as well.
As Bill mentions, this is one of the controversial awards that may or may not have existed during the war.

[dzyner]

Hi Adrian,

Thanks for the post.

I've seen several badges from reputable sites with the same or similar catch as the one in my example. Here are a few examples...

Panzer Assault Badge...
The Collector's Guild

Infantry Assault Badge...
The Collector's Guild

Ground Assault Badge...
Luftwaffe Badges

C. E. Junker example half the way down the page...
Luftwaffe Badges

The Collector's Guild

Can you be more specific about the characteristics of the catch that make it a fake beyond doubt?

Thanks!
Dzyner

[dzyner]

Hey Bill,

Thanks for your reply, and the link. That's a VERY cool set! Wish I had the cash to spend on it

I've read the same thing in other forums and reputable sites, including an outline of the award here...

Luftwaffe Tank Battle Badge

I don't own this yet, but if I can get it in the lot with the other items for a decent price I may take the gamble. I'd still like to get some opinions on the overall construction of the example I posted for review; does it look to be constructed properly (according to other similar examples), or as Adrian mentioned, are there qualities about it that for sure lump it under the fake category. I'm not 100% convinced that the catch identifies it as a fake since (as I posted) there are several examples out there with the same, or similar catches.

I'll wait for more opinions.

[StuG III]

Adrian is referring to the circular part of the catch plate from which the catch is cut and bent up.
Tom

[dzyner]

Thanks for clarifying Tom. I think I understand now. So the ones where the catch is actually cut and bent upward from the actual plate that is attached to the medal are the known fakes? I'll need to request a couple more photos of the one I'm looking at then since I can't tell for sure that is how this is constructed. It appears to be, but I want to be sure. I'll post a photo or two once I have them.

[StuG III]

Pleasure to be able to clear that up for you. This catch setup is attributed to R. Souval post war reproductions as Adrian stated.
Better to be sure and get those photos, but I'm very certain that the catch on the badge you posted is identical.
Tom

[Adrian]

Yes, completely different catch from the ones in the links. The catch in the first photo is made from a circular piece of metal which has had a strip cut and bent up to retain the pin, never seen on originals.
The badge itself was instituted in November 1944 and was awarded on paper at least but it's doubtful at best to say the award was actually manufactured and therefore any pieces must be regarded as postwar made.

[Bill T]

good eye Adrian and Tom. I cant believe I didnt even notice that catch setup! Unfortunately that would be plenty enough to "seal the deal" for me Dzyner! I still have an open mind about these, but they are not something I would dig deep into my pockets for. Good luck on your searches Dzyner