Panzerkampfabzeichen III Stufe "50" opinion.

[humble collector]

Is this piece legit?

[Woolgar]

What are your views from your research?

Nick

[big ned]

Hi HC,

The Gustav Brehmer II and III Stufe Panzerkampf Abzeichen's are probably the most commonly faked high end 3rd Reich awards around, there are thousands of them. They have been copied for at least 60 years and there are an amazing amount of different types out there, some are so good it is thought that they may well have been struck from original dies. Consequently they have suffered in price and collector desirability in the past compared to their Juncker and JFS counterparts, which is a shame, but there are now in place some detailed certainties that can help confirm whether a badge is good or bad.

Unfortunately the photo's that you have supplied are nowhere near good enough to come to a considered opinion either way on the badges veracity imo. The shots need to be pin sharp and straight on taken with a good quality camera, and then you really need really close up macro pic's of the eagle's head, acorn cups, eagle's claws, track links, number box bottom lower edge, rivets, hinge (open and closed) and the catch, especially where it is soldered to the catch plate and also straight on at the top curve looking down on it (we're looking for unmistakable pincer clip marks here) and finally at the pin, where it has been bent to attach it to the hinge.

Pretty intimidating don't you agree? And even then it's not always entirely possible to reach a consensus from all collectors, hence the significant value deficit of the G.B. Panzerkampf Abzeichen's compared to the other makers in todays market.

Then there are issues about the finish and metal quality (fakes are generally made of better material than the late war zinc of originals), and the thickness of the material etc., etc., etc. So, there's a lot to look at, and this is not at all easy without a hands on inspection. I for one would not like to call this one either way from photo's alone, especially the ones shown here, it's a real minefield when it comes to this particular badge. For the record, there are to my eyes both good and bad aspects to this badge, but no way can I be sure enough to form a fair opinion on the evidence here.

Regards, Ned.

[Kradmelder]

Hi Ned,

i think you said all to the problematic!

But what do you think to the position of the maker mark?The "G" is normaly not complete vissible on original pieces.I miss also the toolmark on the pin near the hinge.

[big ned]

Hi Ned,

i think you said all to the problematic!

But what do you think to the position of the maker mark?The "G" is normaly not complete vissible on original pieces.I miss also the toolmark on the pin near the hinge.

Hi Joe,

Good point about the "G" being unobscured, I hadn't noticed that! Could it be the angle of the photo? Or maybe an anomaly during the badges' construction? Hmmm....I certainly haven't seen that before on an original. I need to check out some known fakes to see if it occurs on one of them, but there's so many different types it maybe a fruitless task!

The toolmark, or rather lack of it, on the pin is one of my concerns, as you should see it on one of these early Brehmer numbered Panzerkampf Abzeichen's, that's why I asked for a better shot of the top of the pin where it joins the hinge. It's a very distintive mark and is a sign of a genuine piece.

As we both agree, these badges are extremely awkward to pin down as I said in my last post, not all collectors can agree. Here is a perfect example of that on this forum a couple of years back when some of the main experts in this branch of collecting could not agree or had reservations. It travelled to other forums and there were varying opinions given at that time, it makes interesting reading and shows perfectly what I was reffering to.

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/panze...brehmer-28860/

All in all a 'problematic' call indeed!

Regards, Ned.

[Kradmelder]

Thank you for the link Ned!

That´s indeed a interesting badge!Have you ever seen the flaws on a original badge,that i have marked with the red arrows?A anomaly?

[big ned]

Thank you for the link Ned!

That´s indeed a interesting badge!Have you ever seen the flaws on a original badge,that i have marked with the red arrows?A anomaly?

Haven't seen those before mate, due to a damaged die perhaps? But I have seen the flaw inbetween the two right hand arms of the swastika in varying degrees of size/shape quite a few times on other 25 and 50 Brehmer badges.



Here's another example next to yours.

[humble collector]

I appreciate your candor everyone. I suppose I need to invest in a better camera. Its a puzzling piece for me,
but I will keep it possibly?

[Kradmelder]

That´s a interesting flaw on the swas Ned!

Humble Collector can you post pics in better quality as Ned mentioned?

[big ned]

Just found my way back to this unresolved thread after having done some serious cramming on these once 'difficult-to-tell-the-difference-between-good-and-bad-badges' as i'm interested in getting one. It's not so hard if you get all the details at hand which are more easily available these days due to t'internet.

One thing that is apparent, is that there is no deviance allowed in the obverse design from known originals whatsoever other than the sometimes found flaw in the right swastika arms. To be acceptable the badge MUST be identical to the ones posted by Joe and myself in the above replies. Unfortunately on closer inspection of HC's badge, and armed with what i've since learned, it's an undoubted fake.

There are several areas of his badge's obverse side that can be seen not to match the known and accepted original type, as well as lack of detailing in general. I have highlighted them below, the return rollers, acorns, track links and headlight indicated all fail to match the original.



And an original example (without swastika flaw).



Regards, Ned.