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[Jo Rivett]

You offer me the challenge to show thousands of postwar put together fobs,.

No, and no twice! I asked you to show a few, between 1-5 pieces, of the thousands. If you did mean it generally, and not directly referring to watch fobs only, then it should still be quite easy to show at least 1 or 2 fobs out of the thousands of put together items post war.

Also, this was not a challenge at all, this was me asking you to provide more to a thread than words and what you personally believe, thats all. Outside sources, pictures, evidence, MEAT.... something to accompany your opinion, because all you seem to be able to do, is give your opinion with absolutely no meat on the bones at all. In fact, dry bones my friend, bone dry - so to speak. I have opinions, we all do, but when an item gets it`s head kicked in, when it said outright that "It is fake" "No Good" or "Fantasy" without anything else to support those damaging words.. that`s not good. What is even worse is when the discussion gets personal solely because the "meat" that was supposed to accompany the original Yay or Nay post, cannot be found. In cases like this it never will be found, will it?... with the help of a few Gollums a thread will turn sour and the desired outcome, that of not having to deliver meat, that of not having to prove what rolled off the tongue so easily a few hours ago... will be achieved.

[youthcollector1]

Jo, I know what you're trying to do and I'll not post on this thread after this comment. My original comment had nothing to do with this item or any other of it's kind, hints why I told you to review my statement. All I was attempting to convey was I interpreted Williams post to mean something different than what others were saying it was. These things aren't my field, I don't study them, nor do I know anything about them. Honestly I could careless if every example found was original and not a single copy existed.
As for later on when I said, "these type of items" all I referring to was the thousands of postwar created items shown on here all the time, i.e. items like the 1930's lighters with part of a fake SS stickpin glued to it. That's all, it was vague and it didn't necessarily even included the Fobs so quite putting words into my mouth. I don't know how you can't understand this. You talk about people walking straight into walls over and over, and how frustrating it is to watch, well is not fighting with someone that has a opposite opinion as yours that you will not change the exact same thing?

[avenger]

I'm sure Wagriff gets it wrong from time to time, but I've hardly yet met a more eager, patient, and kind-natured person here so willing to help and share his wide range of knowledge about these items, which I have benefited from numerous times. Even if he does get it wrong, I'll gladly accept his opinion as expert, confidently banking on the other 99 of 100 times he does nail it. I'm glad we have the benefit of having him here, as I'm sure pretty much everyone would also say the same.

[Erno]

Hello Erno, fantasies do exist, but they're fantasies as they don't occur often, though it also means something that never occurs. I understand collectors have used and still use that word to only describe a item that never was, but the actual definition is not just limited to that. William knows the English language quite well, and this is what I got out of his post, though I might of been wrong.

It makes no sense to completely redefine that word in order to retrofit it into the earlier comment. To militaria collectors, the word 'fantasy' means an item that never existed, and this is a militaria forum. I don't know what Wagriff meant, but since 'fantasy' is used here exclusively to describe items that never existed during the Nazi era, not items that seem unlikely to have existed during the Nazi era. If this were a speculative fiction forum, then it might make sense to use that other meaning. It really makes no sense to jury rig alternate meanings for a word which we all understand the meaning of.

[youthcollector1]

"It makes no sense to completely redefine that word in order to retrofit it into the earlier comment."-Erno

Really? How on earth did I redefine the word fantasy in order to retrofit my earlier comment when this was my first comment here?

Allow me to quote myself: "In fairness to William if one defines the word "fantasy" the meaning is, "the product of imagining impossible or improbable things". Therefore, in a sense one could very well argue this item is a fantasy piece as it's improbable, considering the ratio of these things put together today verses the amount of these created during the Third Reich era, that the two parts came together during the Third Reich regime."

Since my first sentence in this thread I've defined fantasy exactly the same as the rest of my comments. And before somebody says it, I know I said I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore. The above needed to be corrected.

[Jo Rivett]

My original comment had nothing to do with this item or any other of it's kind, hints why I told you to review my statement.

Youthcollector, it didnt work for Bill Clinton and it is not going to work for you either.

In fairness to William if one defines the word "fantasy" the meaning is, "the product of imagining impossible or improbable things". Therefore, in a sense one could very well argue this item is a fantasy piece as it's improbable, considering the ratio of these things put together today verses the amount of these created during the Third Reich era, that the two parts came together during the Third Reich regime.

I wont ask why, i guess the wall will either give way at some point, or you`ll give up.

[Jo Rivett]

Here is another interesting one...

[Gabriel West]

woow! intresting piece!

[big ned]

Another one here, slightly off topic being Luft Flak, but the construction and edge detailing is the same.

Click on pic's to expand.

Stewart's Military Antiques - - German WWII Luftwaffe Flak Unit Presentation Watch Fob, 800 Silver - $210.00

Regards, Ned.

[Jo Rivett]

woow! intresting piece!

Yes it is, it is found on p.33 of Rudolf Steinbergs 1975 book: NAZI KITSCH. A set is shown. Whether they are all period pieces i would not know, but would think that they are all original, as there are no other fakes shown in his book at all. There are very interesting Kitsch objects shown in this book, a must really for anyone who is interested in this area of NS collecting. There are a few good books available for a long time now that deal with these kinds of items. (There are also laws and regulations that apply to them, that can be found in period NSDAP correspondance) Much better to inform yourself from sources like these, that just use an opinion from a collector based on a quick Google search who may possibly know nothing more than what the net tells him - (or her)