NSDAP party badge Origionallity

[Overthetop]

need a second opinion on this,.possible purchase.thanks in advance.




si

[wpheaton]

Looks better than the $20 one I bought today.

[big ned]

I like this one. A 30.5mm Deschler with a replaced catch, the really interesting part for me is the holders party number that is not stamped as most are, but has been done using a method called "Rotograving" where the numbers were engraved. This method is rather uncommon and only found on the large Deschler badge, and the small circular markings within the numbers are a very good sign of this being an original piece.

It's worth noting the mistake on the first number '5', It would appear to be a red flag, but for me is a genuine mistake, not serious enough to warrant scrapping a badge at the very last step. The hinge plate looks good, I like the slightly "wavy" bottom edge, it's seen on all originals. On the obverse side the translucent red enamelling looks nice, covering the correctly stippled background of the text, which also looks right.

I'll be interested to hear others thoughts about this slightly "different" badge, it does warrant close examination especially due to the flawed engraving of the number, but on the evidence taken as a whole overall I give it a fairly robust

Regards, Ned.

[Overthetop]

thanks ned,.as you said i will hold off for a while,.get a few more opinions,you seem to know alot about NSDAP party abzeichen,so i will take your comment on board,.thanks mate.

si

[Wagriff]

Overall, I am inclined to think that this was once original also, but it's condition is abit puzzling. It is in a very beaten and abused shape, which, in itself, would not be a problem, but who and when was the replaced catch done by? It is a horrendously Crude repair and I have to wonder why? It is difficult to believe that the original numbered recipient would have had such a "repair", if such can even be called of it, done....and yet, if it was a bring-home souvenir by some Allied soldier, why on earth would he do such a thing himself? The leaves on the obverse side of the wreath are worn almost to smoothness and how this would have occurred is also a mystery. I am also not particularly liking the area of porosity to the metal on the pin side at 7 O'Clock.
So, what do we actually have here? An, apparently, original badge that has undergone terrible abuse and repairs that even a school kid in shop class could and would have done better on. Overall, I would have to, at the end of the day, pass on it. Not from lack of authenticity, but more from the almost total destructive damage and work done to it. Unfortunately, I would rate the dollar value of it as very little and not worth investing funds into. It will always be a source of question and contention and I doubt very much if it's value will ever increase in the future.

[Overthetop]

thanks for your comment wagriff,.i have decided against the purchase,& am putting my $$$ toward a new HJ knife.thanks lads

si

[wpheaton]

How much are they asking for this?

William

[big ned]

... The leaves on the obverse side of the wreath are worn almost to smoothness and how this would have occurred is also a mystery.

I can understand that reasoning, but there isn't really any mystery here in my humble opinion. Firstly, if the leaves were heavily worn down to the state of being smooth, then surely this would have entailed the mercurial fire gilded gold being worn away showing at least some of the copper undercoat or even verdigris as shown here (apologies for the pic quality):



Secondly, the large Deschler GBP that has the military type tapered vertical pin invariably has, for reasons unknown, a slightly more obvious and pronounced central vein or stem to the centre of the oak leaves than the same sized badge fitted with the horizontal wire pin or "civilian" type. Strange, but it is documented. Note the highlighted areas on the vertical pin version showing these veins/stems here:



Then compare to the less well defined central vein/stem on the "civilian" horizontal wire pin type shown in post #1:



As can be seen there is a difference that is noticeable.

Moving on to the crude repair of the catch. It certainly is rather rough and ready, but is typical when one looks at period repaired badges when done by the owner rather than a skilled individual, craftsman or jeweller. Or perhaps but less likely in my opinion, by the soldier who may have bought it home, (but it could of course been found in Germany last week). Only the other day a highly worn numbered G.B PAB was shown here with a very crude rivets repair that had been deemed fake in some postings on other forums, it has since received the A.O.K. from the more senior collectors of the type. Who knows the circumstances, why's and wherefores these things occur?

Panzerkampfabzeichen II Stufe "25", Gustav Brehmer

So in summary, although I understand the valid concerns you raise about this badge, that is not quite textbook in several ways William, I think it is what it is, and not the worst example of a genuine (my opinion) large GPB that if priced accordingly can find a place in someone's collection as a representative piece.

Regards, Ned.

[remss]

Looks alright
big size D1 type.
but the pin is remade.

regards.

[Erich S]

A nice original and the catch repair was most likely period done.