Suspected Armband Fakes

**Bob Hritz** · 07-08-2009, 06:48 PM

Here are 2 armbands that were from my vet buys back in the 1970s.

Bob Hritz

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-08-2009 06:48 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

PHILBROWN · 07-08-2009, 07:00 PM

the lower one is a nice bevo by the appearence, but still would like to see documented proof of this , it does seen bizarre, why not {if correct] stamp internally? dont suppose we will ever know, we all think differently

**Australian Guy** · 07-08-2009, 07:15 PM

I too have for quite awhile considered the stamps on the outside of the armbands a added feature for the collectors to theorize about.

I thank Mr Hritz for posting his two arm bands that he purchased from vets in the '70's, does the fact that the items came from vets it the '70's then make them 100% proof that these are not in some way altered? I fail to come to that conclusion beyond reasonable doubt. Could not these have been stamped by the people who souvenired them from an office, or could they have not been altered before the vet obtained them in some fashion, did the vet actually take it from a uniform or from a buddy who happened to have a bag full I don't know? The vet item is often used as making an item infallible, how many of us involved in the oral history field have heard reminiscences that have been clouded with time, I would say many! No disrespect to the veterans, but not all items and stories are as the seem, no matter if it has become dogma.

I too would like to see original period pictures in which these armbands have the small circular "unit ownership" in evidence, or at the very least some regulation requiring the said items to be stamped on the face. Were the units so worried about these items of almost no period value being taken home and used, perhaps? However, in my opinion, and use of brassards in my service, if you didn't have your own (who didn't), then one from a clothing store was signed out and a record was entered that you had one. What is the point of defacing the item with a stamp on the visible part?

Not saying yours are in anyway fake, just entering in a robust discussion on alternate theories.

Once again, just my two bobs worth, for what it is.

Grant

**Bob Hritz** · 07-08-2009, 09:03 PM

To each his own.

Bob Hritz

**Australian Guy** · 07-08-2009, 09:18 PM

by Bob Hritz

To each his own.

Bob Hritz

Bob,

On this we must be 100% in solidarity

Everybody has their thoughts on items, and this is what makes collecting such items a challenging pursuit, I thank you for your considerd reply

Some would wish to no doubt label me, and others, doubting Thomas', perhaps a label I/we deserve

. However, I do like to try and be 100%sure when and if I must pass judgment on a topic.

Without irrefutable evidence, I feel there must always be room for such discussion. A lack of questions being asked, and blind acceptance has never ended well in any aspect of life.

However, the best I could state regarding the original items posted, is they do not appear to be period items, and ipso facto, the stamps have been added to increase their appeal.

Kind regards,

Grant

**lach470** · 07-08-2009, 10:36 PM

Bob....That top armband....I've never seen anything like that before. Do you have any idea what the German says in the armband? That piece is a first for me.

Cheers!

Rob

**BOB COLEMAN** · 07-10-2009, 12:48 AM

Reliance on only period photographs to validate an artifact is a flawed concept. Discovery of photographic evidence is of course a wonderful method to illustrate how any item was used. Period documentation, reference books and historical provenance are far more important. Property stamps found on both military and paramilitary armbands has collector provenance back to the earliest days of collecting. I bought my first property stamped armband in 1956 for the stunning amount of $3.00. It was a cotton three piece political armband with a double stamp, "Reichsparteitag 1933 and Reichsparteitag 1934." It was among a stack of political armbands, all available for the same price. The first reference book on armbands was published in the early 1960's by Stan Bozich. Within it's pages were numerous armbands with property stamps. "Cloth Insignia of the NSDAP and SA" has multiple pages of various armbands, many with property stamps. Armbands with these stampings were given to auxillary and volunteer units. The stamping on the armband served a dual purpose of validating the authority of the wearer and also stating the ownership of the item. These armbands were worn with civilian clothing. What photographs from period that may show a civilian wearing an armband would certainly not have the resolution to show the stamp. These stampings are in most cases difficult to read when held several inches in front of ones eyes.
Property markings were not limited to armbands. i am attaching pictures of a stamp found in the top of a SA crusher style kepi known as a lagermutze. I am also attaching a decal found in the skirt of a gladiator helmet bearing the political leader decals.
In 1964, a fellow collector visited me a large grouping of material he had purchased from a former member of the 101st Airborne Division. All of the items had a pedigree to the Obersalzburg. Among the items was a very large pair of white silk breifs that were trimmed in blue, had genuine pearl brothers up the front and had the large monogram of "HG." Now I have never seen a photograph of Herman in his briefs but I know they were what they were purported to be.