Griffin Militaria - Top
Display your banner here
Results 1 to 6 of 6

A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)

Article about: Hi, another recent addition is this Feldherrnhalle (FHH) cufftitle. This is the all rayon 'Type 3' (no aluminium at all) to use the collector terminology as used in Ulric's cuff-title books.

  1. #1
    ?

    Default A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)

    Hi, another recent addition is this Feldherrnhalle (FHH) cufftitle. This is the all rayon 'Type 3' (no aluminium at all) to use the collector terminology as used in Ulric's cuff-title books.

    According to Ulric's research these bands were issued from 1934 with aluminium borders and lettering (Type 1), then in 1939 the border changed from aluminium to rayon (to save money and because of wartime restrictions on the use of aluminium) (i.e Type 2). Finally this all rayon 'Type 3' was produced during 'wartime' (perhaps not long after 1939 ? - my speculation) for the same aluminium / cost-saving reasons.

    In addition I believe that some were made hand embroidered (only for Officers, perhaps field/ tailor made, I'm not sure if these were 'official'?), and also that there was a plain brown felt-backed 'variant' version produced for Heer Feldherrnhalle units in the late war period. An example here:-

    https://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=4652

    Additionally, according to Ulric an 'SS style' Bevo Wuppertal Feldherrnhalle cuffband was made specifically and only for the Heer units of the FHH (initially Infantry Regiment 271 of the 93rd Infantry Division and then numerous other units as the FHH expanded to Division and then Korps size by the end of the war, as well as Panzer Brigade 106 FHH, Panzer Brigade 110 FHH and so on).

    As Ulric points out, this last mentioned cuffband was "manufactured from 1943", yet the Feldherrnhalle Infantry regiment (formerly the 271st Regiment) was authorised to wear a cufftitle in 1942. For this reason I suspect that the SA cuff-titles (Types 1 -3) were worn by Heer units as they would already be available and they would be 'in surplus' as many SA men had transferred into the Heer (perhaps even bringing their cufftitles with them when they transferred?). Also, these 'Bevo Wuppertal' type bands are so rare that I can't help wondering at how many were actually issued? I believe that the late Brian L Davis (UK author and collector) had one in his collection as I vaguely recall him offering it to me when I bought other insignia from him in the 1990's when he was selling his collection. I might be mistaken however, it could have been a 'Type 3' as seen here, it was a long time ago....

    Another interesting aside is the Officers/ Enlisted Men aspect. Many dealers refer to the Type 1/ 2 as 'Officer's' cufftitles (i.e with aluminium lettering), and the Type 3 as 'Enlisted'. However, Ulric's research does not seem to endorse this, and some German collectors (on MFF), where there seems to be considerable interest in this particular insignia, also seem adamant that the cufftitle types were produced sequentially as described above and worn by all ranks simultaneously and without distinction of rank.

    I don't wish to denigrate dealers for this (if the above is correct), some deal with massive stocks of goods and they cannot be specialists in all areas.

    I'm showing this band in this section as I believe that this type (and others) were used by the Heer units of the Feldherrnhalle, even though they were initially SA insignia of course!

    I have set out above what I think I know from reading around on these cuff-titles, but please correct me if I am wrong!

    Best regards, Paul

    (This particular example seems to have been worn, see the 2nd to last picture, it's cleaner where it was folded when originally applied.)
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)   A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)  

    A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)   A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)  

    A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)   A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)  

    A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)   A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)  


  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    P
    Many
     

  3. #2
    ?

    Default

    You are quite correct about the FHH in the Brian L Davis collection being the traditional Bevo "military" type similar to SS cuffbands. I bought a few pieces from Brian at that time including his Marineküstenpolizei cuffband and came within a hairs breadth of buying the FHH. I wish I had now. Having said that I am not aware of any clear photos where the true "military" Bevo style FHH band is worn, always just the SA political type.

  4. #3
    ?

    Default

    Quote by Redcap View Post
    You are quite correct about the FHH in the Brian L Davis collection being the traditional Bevo "military" type similar to SS cuffbands. I bought a few pieces from Brian at that time including his Marineküstenpolizei cuffband and came within a hairs breadth of buying the FHH. I wish I had now. Having said that I am not aware of any clear photos where the true "military" Bevo style FHH band is worn, always just the SA political type.
    I think you're right, I remember him telling me how rare it was, like you I wish I had bought it and still had it! At the time it was outside of my collecting area (I bought several pieces of GD insignia from him, sadly I no longer have them....).

    Very interesting observation you make regarding these Bevo 'SS style' bands being rarely seen in wartime pictures, perhaps they were a limited run? In Gordon Williamson's book "German Military Cuffbands 1784 - present" he states when referring to the cuffbands supplied to the FHH Heer units:-

    "The cuffband was worn on the lower left sleeve. All of these cuffband patterns were identical to the original political SA patterns"

    which suggests to me that additional runs of the same (i.e identical) bands might have been produced for the Heer units. It would I suppose be the simplest and easiest solution to the need for extra cuffbands, and perhaps also be desirable in terms of 'linking' the SA to their Heer units through common insignia (and other shared traditions).

    I've added some pictures of the rare Bevo 'SS style' (as Ulric calls it) band, and one (rare) picture showing it in use, which Ulric credits to John R Angolia and Bender publishing.

    NB - It's noteworthy that well known US collector Bob Hritz refers all of the FHH cufftitles as 'Bevo' machine woven (i.e made on a Jacquard weaving loom), hence (to differentiate) the reference to this band as 'SS style' Bevo as it does closely resemble many Bevo SS cufftitles in style.

    Best regards, Paul

    (This is a black and white picture, the original cuffband when seen 'in the flesh' is "pale grey on brown" according to Gordon Williamson.)
    ...
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)   A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)  

    A Feldherrnhalle cufftitle (Type 3?)  
    Last edited by PaulW; 11-10-2018 at 02:47 AM.

  5. #4
    ?

    Default

    Hi Paul, Yes, as far as I can recall the colours of the "military" Bevo FHH are very similar to that you find on the army Feldgendarmerie cuffband, pale grey on a light brown. I did have a colour snap of Brian's example but have no idea what has happened to the snap. I had forgotten about the image you show of the FHH in wear. Very very rare though. It can be very difficult to discern the differences on photos but that is clearly the "military" type.
    Nomenclature on cuffbands can be confusing partucularly because most of it is purely collector invented. Original material would refer to insignia as either hand embroidered, machine embroidered or woven. Things like "RZM Embroidered", "BeVo-like", "Flat-wire " etc are all coined by collectors. Even within "Bevo" there can be several variants - e.g. Feldgendarmerie bands have at least three weave styles but though I can tell "in the flesh" without looking at the reverse, you would be hard pushed to determine which is which on wartime photos when seeing only the face of the band due to the difefrences being so minor. It is possible that many wartime images show the "military" BeVo FHH in wear its just not possible to be sure unless you get a really sharp close up. I would still be confident that the overwhelming majority of them are wearing the original "political" SA style band.

    By the way, I am the Gordon Williamson who wrote the cuffband book. What I meant by saying the Army were issued with a cuffband identical to the SA patterns was that they were in Sütterlin script on a brown band. With some bands different versions were issued to different forces - i.e. the Horst Wessel for the SS, the Horst Wessel for the Luftwaffe, Hitlerjugend for Waffen-SS, Hitlerjugend for Navy, and Hitlerjugend for the HJ. All the same name but different styles. WIth FHH, the identical style for Political and Military albeit with minor manufacturing differences. I would however still say given the vast quantities already made, that the overwhelming majority of Heer pesonnel would have been issued the original SA pattern.

    Coincidentally as with FHH, there is a Feldgendarmerie band in machine embroidery on brown wool, without edging. 100% convinced they are real, but have never seen a wartime image of one in use. Embroidered versions yes, but not without edging. Some things will probably never enjoy the benefit of wartime photographic provenance. At least with the "military" Bevo FHH we have a few photos.

    Cheers

    Gordon

  6. #5
    ?

    Default

    Hi Gordon, many thanks for the informative reply. It's great to know that you're a Forum member here, sharing your knowledge and experience with us.

    I have several of your books and am a fan of the Osprey books too (I have a lot - not just WW2!) because they are succinct, i.e to the point and I find myself reaching for them over and over.

    One of my favourite Osprey volumes is your Hermann Goring Division book (2003), naturally I would love to see an Osprey volume dedicated to the Feldherrnhalle Wehrmacht units too!

    On another note, I always found Brian L Davis to be a very friendly and helpful man, had he still been alive I can only imagine at the knowledge he would have been able to share on the militaria Forums of today.

    Best regards, Paul

  7. #6
    ?

    Default

    Yes, Brian was a real gentleman, very modest and always ready to help and advise. Same with David Littlejohn, one of the great pioneers in German medal collecting. Another gent who was very modest and never failed to respond to requests for advice. Sadly both no longer with us and the collecting world is a poorer place without them. I was fortunate to have them both as friends and mentors when I started collecting 50 years ago.

Similar Threads

  1. SA Feldherrnhalle

    In Non-Combat Uniforms and related insignia of the Third Reich
    08-27-2016, 11:56 PM
  2. Feldherrnhalle - Mahnmal Type of Eagle?

    In Non-Combat Uniforms and related insignia of the Third Reich
    08-09-2014, 09:05 PM
  3. 06-17-2014, 10:20 AM
  4. Großdeutschland Type 4 cufftitle for officers

    In Heer, Luftwaffe, & Kriegsmarine Uniforms of the Third Reich
    03-27-2013, 11:31 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Militaria Romandie - Down
Display your banner here