Help! Identifying uniform and rank etc

[Tim49980]

I was thinking about getting a replica Erkennungsmarke dog tag made that he would have worn but the way they are marked is confusing at best.

He would have had an early type being an officer in 1939 when the the EK's were issued.

Don't supposed anyone on here would be able to help me get the characters correct?

[laurence strong]

Here's the translation:

However, his application for authorization to wear uniform after discharge was denied (see file card RW 59 / 2078).[/I]"[/INDENT]

I would be interested in knowing what reasons could be used to deny the wearing of uniforms after discharge. I don't think that it was a common thing to "deny" was it?


Cheers
Larry

[Tim49980]

I've no idea why unfortunately, I've got some notes that suggest that he was in hospital due to illness rather than injury, which must have been pretty bad as he was a career military man and I would've thought that in 1942 every able bodied man would've been needed?

If he had done something 'wrong' wouldn't the consequences been worse than a denial of wearing his uniform?

[laurence strong]

Hi

I'm not saying he did anything "wrong".

However special uniform considerations were granted to soldiers at retirement after service. Retirees were given permission to wear the uniform, normally that of the last unit to which they were assigned.

So I was curious as to what reasons could be used to deny that consideration.



Cheers
Larry

[HPL2008]

I'm sure his not being granted the right to wear the uniform after discharge had nothing to do with disciplinary reasons.

Section 33 of the 1935 Wehrgesetz [Defense Law] said*):

"(1) Den aus der Wehrmacht ausscheidenden Angehörigen der Wehrmacht kann das Recht zum Tragen der Uniform eines Wehrmachtteiles mit einem für Verabschiedete vorgeschriebenen Abzeichen widerruflich verliehen werden.
(2) Dieses Recht wird in der Regel nur nach einer in Ehren geleisteten Dienstzeit von mindestens 12 Jahren verliehen werden."

["(1) Members of the armed forces who are being discharged from the armed forces can be granted the revocable right to wear the uniform of one service of the armed forces with insignia prescribed for discharged personnel.
(2) As a rule, this right will only be granted after honorable service of at least 12 years duration."]

So, discharged personnel were not automatically entitled to wearing the uniform unless the privilege was denied; on the contrary, they had to be expressly granted this privilege on an individual basis. That's a big difference to begin with. For personnel with less than 12 years of service, the right was routinely not granted.

You said your grandfather was a "career military man". The letter from the Bundesarchiv tells us that he was in fact not a professional soldier at the time of his discharge, but a reserve officer, which he had been since February 1939. The first photo in this thread with him as NCO appears to be from a significantly earlier date. I would guess he had served in the Reichswehr/Wehrmacht as an enlisted man, became a reserve officer after discharge and was then reactivated in this role.

In this case, he should have met the criteria of at least 12 years of service, as this was the minimum period of service for which an enlisted man could sign up in the Reichswehr. However, under certain circumstances, premature discharge was possible. If this was the case, his not meeting the 12 year requirement would have been reason enough to not take him into consideration for granting him the right to wear the uniform.

Also, the reason may have been as simple as his being a reservist at the time of discharge.

[Tim49980]

That all makes a lot of sense, thank you very much for taking the time

[Tim49980]

Whilst looking at some shoulder boards I've come to the realisation that the infantry reserve had white waffenfarbe with a grey backing (nebenfarbe?). This would explain why they looked black in the picture I have.

Going through the book of mine (by Brian L Davis) I'm struggling to confirm what uniform an officer reserve would have worn

Can anyone shed a bit of light on this?

Looking to create this uniform could prove redicoulouly difficult.

[Hans Still]

In the first photograph, he is an NCO (note the rank Tresse [braid] on his shoulder boards and collar), apparently an officer candidate. It's a photograph from the early-Third Reich period; the men are already wearing the Feldbluse [field blouse] introduced in 1933, but not yet the breast eagle introduced in 1934.

You are mistaken, sir!

The first photo is a complete rarity: — barracks of Prince Hendrik in Holland and the events are those for 5 years before the introduction of Fieldbluses...

[HPL2008]

You are mistaken, sir!

The first photo is a complete rarity: — barracks of Prince Hendrik in Holland and the events are those for 5 years before the introduction of Fieldbluses...

You know what; you're absolutely right. I stand corrected.

The men are indeed wearing a type of uniform I had not even considered: What we see here is indeed not the Feldbluse, but the rare and short-lived open-collared Versuchsuniform [experimental uniform]. Such uniforms went through troop trials from 1927 to 1929, but were never adopted after that.

Also, thanks for this better and uncropped version of the photo.

[Wilhelm Saris]

Interesting for me as Dutch. The photo must be from 1928 when Germans
did take part with the "Vierdaagse" at Nijmegen (Netherlands), where the
Prins Hendrikkazerne was located. The inner parade-field for the barracks
and the nearby "Molenveld" were the start for this event, which still does
take place annual.

The Germans marched 40 km evereyday and were with about 40 of them
involved. It was in that years the first time the "vierdaagse" was open for
foreigners.



A German Hauptmann Ottenbacher collects the crosses for the 1928 event
for the German soldiers.

And it is still going on every year with civil walkers and many military from
all over the glove: