Government/Diplomatic

[Wilhelm Saris]

Page 533 upper is possibly wrong buckle to a correct brocade.
But who knows they took buckles from old stocks in the early period of
wearing for officials.
Here shown Reichsgesetzblatt from 1940 for state officials.
It is obvious what the stand for the head should be?



The one you show with post 20 is a silver washed DLV officers
from brass or likewise material.

Just a part of the buckles and brocades from a friend. He has more
of these diplomats and state officials buckles. How the brocades should
look like is also described in regulations. The rarest is the one with the
tiny golden stripes along the dark wider stripes (at right second from
below).





Look the stand of the heads (not with all very well to see).

[kirby]

Thanks for posting your friends nice collection. The line drawing has the head facing the opposite direction of my buckle and the head is slightly raised on my buckle. I guess this is a hard buckle to truly classify. Government/Diplomatic/ DLV/RLB.

[Wilhelm Saris]

The line drawing has the head facing the opposite direction of my buckle and the head is slightly raised on my buckle. I guess this is a hard buckle to truly classify. Government/Diplomatic/ DLV/RLB.

The line drawing is an official drawing and your buckle is not at all hard to classify (see also below). It is NOT a government/diplomatic buckle (the upper one you show). The middle one was was never introduced for officials from the diplomatic corps and the lower one is an official about 1940-buckle for a governmental official.
With special occasions a brocade was to be worn with two dark-blue stripes. Higher ranked officials did wear the same brocade, but with golden edged dark-blue stripes. This type of buckle was either in silver with a golden eagle in the middle, surrounded by laurel leaves. The highest ranks did wear a total golden version (Schwert und Spaten, nr. 5 from May 1939. Page 80; Uniformen-Markt, nr. 24 from December 15, 1939. P. 325. The thin golden stripes and golden eagle were not mentioned anymore in 1940). As mentioned preparations for uniforms started in 1938 (photo from my "Aiguillettes of the Third Reich").



I think the misunderstanding with these buckles is caused by the fact that authors write massive books about buckles, but have hardly or no knowledge of the actual uniform-regulations. Neither do they have proper knowledge about the stand for the head. A simple fact!

From the permanent F.W.Assmann-catalogue here shown is addendum page 52c. Look at the title: Beamten und Diplomaten (state officials and diplomats). Only one type of buckle is shown and so used by both (state officials and diplomats).



The buckle - you show - is neither DLV or RLB, while a golden colored buckle is not mentioned in the early regulations. If they actually were worn in gold, then the group of wearer's was so small, they did not even mention it in the uniform-regulations:
a) DLV - Bestimmungen über die Bekleidung des Deutschen Luftsport-Verbandes from October 1, 1935. Page 8 mentions: "mattweissem Schloss mit dem Hoheitszeichen" (so for the brocade). In an earlier post I told what your buckle actually is.
Remind the NSDAP eagle symbol is an eagle which looks to its left wing. The uniforms for the DLV, as well as "Deutsche Luftfahrt" were protected by law as were the uniforms for SA, SS etc. since 1933;
b) RLB - Bestimmungen über die Bekleidung des Reichsluftschutzbundes from March 7, 1934. Page 6 mentions " mattweissem Schloss mit Hoheitsabzeichen der NSDAP" (so for the brocade)! With the new regulation from November 27, 1935 it was noted buckle with the RLB-star (for the brocade). The type with the NSDAP eagle was actually abolished. In the March 1934 regulation must have been made a mistake, as it was literally said: oak-leaf wreath (and not laurel as what it was) I have not ever seen a leaflet or catalogue with such buckle with oak-leaves!!
So, here is what is worn with the brocade. With the regular uniforms with both a matt-white double-claw was to be worn!

[kirby]

Thank you for all the information. Time to update my buckle list and put this in it's proper classification.

[Wilhelm Saris]

Hope I could help you in some ways, Kirby. I was pleased to do so!

I think the time is ripe for the ultimate buckle reference. Someone in
Germany is working with it! Hope it straightens what was done not
correctly in the past.......If it is okay for 90% or more then it will be
the final buckle reference. Hope I will see it some day!

[kirby]

A buddy just picked up this great looking Diplomatic brocade. Love to have it in my collection.

[all1knew]

I'm confused. Can somebody explain the difference between Government Official and Diplomat brocades? I see gold and silver colored pieces in this thread, which is which? I see some eagles looking right and some looking right, once again, which is which? I have a Government official jacket and I am searching for the correct brocade belt. Can anyone help?

William Kramer