Default Mystery M42 Heer ET 62 Double Decal?

[real steel]

Mr. Lufty

I think a bit of a communication issue. Nobody declared your decal (Nat. colors) fake. Frank stated better pics were needed to give an opinion, Leon simply said he never encountered an M42 with a tri-color decal. I certainly did not say it was fake. If anyone had an issue with authenticity it was you in your opening post thinking it was painted on.

You come across as being frustrated with members here who can't give a 100% guarantee on your helmet. I hope I am reading you wrong but that is how I interpret some of your comments. What you have here is an anomaly...something that really has no explanation. What you will receive is conjecture, which is an opinion on what has been observed the last 50 years or so of decal applications. It also involves receiving the best, most logical explanations we can come up with.

Again, the helmet is "non-standard" & if the decal is original (we still don't know due to low quality pictures), it could have been applied for any of the above stated reasons we gave, or maybe your own opinion is the one you should stick to.

Wish I could give you a "concrete" explanation but in reality, that would be impossible for anyone to do.

[luftyluftylufty]

Thank you for your input.
My eye site is not 20/20 at this time . I have on order two pairs of spectacles at £490 GBP. Ouch!
The post was started with the belief that the tricolour had been painted,
I had taken the opinion of someone who I believed had better eyesight .

Lets say better photography provides a clear picture of the tricolour .
And that we are dealing with a shield that is convincingly period.

My point is this ,We are dealing with something which does not sit comfortably with our sense of being genuine.

I quote from the entry I took issue with.

"it is highly unlikely that the National shield is period applied"

If The National Shield Was Period Applied It Would Still Be Highly Unlikely.

I was never expecting a concrete explication but statistics are a way of casting doubt on an item that just might deserve better.


The helmet walked into my high street a few days ago with a veteran's family rather than a collector .

To state that the shield is not period applied is a statistical calculation rather than a scientific one.


In all honesty I was expecting the helmet to shredded.

I posted it against the advice of a fellow trader but something compelled me to do it and I am delighted!

Thank you all for your intelligent comments

[luftyluftylufty]

Just for the record I have added these images

[FALLSCHIRMJAGER]

Hi, well I will now add that the decal looks like an original (even from these crazy angles).That said, I would be inclined to think it is post war applied. My reason has nothing to do with statistics, just the often observed "cracking and splits" to the decals surface which can be seen here in the white area. That happens when original un-used decals are applied years after they were made, the glue that holds the decal to the backing paper and then the helmet itself, deteriorates over time resulting in the decal getting damaged and splitting during application, and cracking when drying out. Leon.

[ruddersrangers44]

This reminds me of an M42 Ken N had a few years back,S/D Heer with hand painted national party,it belonged to a prison guard,so not unheard of doing this.just my 2 cents.

[MAP]

Thank you for your input.
My eye site is not 20/20 at this time . I have on order two pairs of spectacles at £490 GBP. Ouch!
The post was started with the belief that the tricolour had been painted,
I had taken the opinion of someone who I believed had better eyesight .

Lets say better photography provides a clear picture of the tricolour .
And that we are dealing with a shield that is convincingly period.

My point is this ,We are dealing with something which does not sit comfortably with our sense of being genuine.

I quote from the entry I took issue with.

"it is highly unlikely that the National shield is period applied"

If The National Shield Was Period Applied It Would Still Be Highly Unlikely.

I was never expecting a concrete explication but statistics are a way of casting doubt on an item that just might deserve better.


The helmet walked into my high street a few days ago with a veteran's family rather than a collector .

To state that the shield is not period applied is a statistical calculation rather than a scientific one.


In all honesty I was expecting the helmet to shredded.

I posted it against the advice of a fellow trader but something compelled me to do it and I am delighted!

Thank you all for your intelligent comments

I think the question is that it does not fit comfortably with being "a standard configuration". Decal appears original and old.

We know from records that the National Shield was order to be removed much earlier and the other shield was also ordered to be removed during the M42 production run.

As such we are simply left with an anomaly as stated.

Thus there are 3 simple scenarios.

1) It was added during the war for some unknown reason
2) It was added immediately after the war by a vet or someone selling it to a Vet to bring home a souvenir
3) It was added well after post war

That's it. Which scenario can be debated. If the story is true (and I have no reason to believe it is not), then we are left with scenario 1 or 2. Which one you pick is up to you.

[luftyluftylufty]

Thank you all very much for the logic clarity you have bought to this thread .
I do not feel there are enough known examples of post factory applied tricolours to
verify the deteriorated glue theory yet. I believe the veteran's
family who claim it was bought home from the War so if it was "messed with"
it would have occurred back in late 1945,

[Schwerpunkt]

Too bad you seem to struggle with good head on close-ups that show the decals sharp and clear. No need to take them at an angle.
Sometimes it helps to take them from further away let's say 20-30cm so that the targetting blocks cover the entire decal.
Otherwise parts will always be blurry and that makes authentication difficult.

[Schwerpunkt]

Thanks I see your last tricolor photos are much better , yes it looks like a good period tricolor to me.
So that is good. The question which will remain unanswered is to what purpose it was added. Wartime or post war.
If you have the veteran's provenance all the better and it is a nice piece for your collection.

[luftyluftylufty]

Thank you for following up the thread .
I had offered a friend £50 to find me a period picture
of an M42 with state decal ?

I think My Money Is Safe