Transitional HJ Knife,, need information

**pepper** · 02-07-2013, 07:30 PM

Dear collectors! Thank you for your comments! I can not argue about the authenticity of the motto. You know the subject better than I do. I made a big photos. Some of them, with the help of a microscope. Hopefully, it will help to know the truth. But, I want to make a clarification. I want to make notes:

1. The motto has a relief. I checked it out.
This relief is not deep. That is, all the same letters have some depth.
2. You write: “The etching looks far too good/new for this knife. Many motto's are barely visible these days. Except from Ger's mint example”
-But the letters motto I made black. It's blueing. I used the "Klever schnell-brunienrung" (liquid gun blue for steel). That is, I have updated this inscription. Then I polished (grinding) the blade surface with sandpaper. This can be seen in the photo. It traces in strips:

Transitional HJ Knife,, need information

After that, only the letters were black. After a while the blade again became dark.
These circumstances can be confusing.
You write: “From the pics i will say the "Ehre" is possibly etched over corrosion.”
-Could this be the same reason?
So, look at the photos and consider these circumstances.

One more note:
Irregular contours of letters is the result of applying the motto etched (etching), is not it?
You write: “Problem is that that Transit. from muller didnt had a Motto as far as i know.”
- with this it is difficult to argue

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 02-07-2013 07:30 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**pepper** · 02-07-2013, 07:58 PM

So, are the highlights:
1. Letters motto I made blacker than before. (blueing).
2. Subsequently, the blade was worn sandpaper. This has resulted in the band and touches on the blade. This interferes with the authenticity of the motto.
but the microscope reveals that the rough outlines of the letters. Look for example at the sign "!" On the photo. Laser engraving does not look like that. This etching, is not it?

**pepper** · 02-08-2013, 02:57 PM

I think that the motto is old and it was made long time ago. It is seen on the photos made with the help of microscope, that there is corrosion, irregular contours and deterioration, So the motto is as old as the knife itself.

**gerrit** · 02-08-2013, 03:58 PM

Hi Pepper,

thx for your new Photo's, because we have some differences in opinions i took the advise of Mac 66 to heart:
i asked the moderater ( Herman) of the HJ section of germandaggers to take a look, he is one leading expert on HJ knives.
He states the Motto & Logo are correct for this maker.
so thats clear now:
but .....he also replies that he has never seen the fat swastika variant thats on this knifes on a Muller transitional.
He therefore thinks that the diamond might have been replaced.

Cheers Ger

**youthcollector1** · 02-08-2013, 04:35 PM

I agree, with the new photos, it's very clear that the etching is period done. Can not speak on the diamond, but you can't argue with a leading expert.

**Datrus** · 02-08-2013, 04:36 PM

Well done Ger

Cheers

**Datrus** · 02-08-2013, 04:48 PM

I was not aware of that you touched up the motto with bluing. It make more sense it looks so good

Happily Ger have cleared up any doubts now. This type of knife was(one of) the "standard" boy scout knives in Denmark when i was a child. I would think a lot of fakes are made from these knives.

Here is one

Regards, Lars

**Mac 66** · 02-08-2013, 05:54 PM

Hi Pepper,

Great photos & new info on the blackened motto by yourself

I can confirm now that your motto was period etched & looks genuine imo

As for the daimond insignia can you tell me if it has movement, wiggle when tapped with your finger ?

Its a genuine hj daimond imo so maybe R. Muller used this fat swastika variant also along with other variant hj knife daimonds during manufacture?, these things can happen as not all was text book produced.

@ Ger, The daimond in your R.Muller you showed in post #9 looks like a fat swastika variant , can you post a close up pic ?

Regards Mac 66.

**pepper** · 02-08-2013, 08:23 PM

Hi gentlemen! All of you I thank for the help!

gerrit:
You write: “but .....he also replies that he has never seen the fat swastika variant thats on this knifes on a Muller transitional.
He therefore thinks that the diamond might have been replaced.

Mac 66: “As for the daimond insignia can you tell me if it has movement, wiggle when tapped with your finger ?”
-Really, guys, diamond is fixed not movably. I noticed it long ago. This fact too caused suspicions in me!
I agree: I too think that the diamond might have been replaced.

gerrit: “…but .....he also replies that he has never seen the fat swastika variant thats on this knifes on a Muller transitional.”
-This valuable opinion of the expert. It helps to find answers when there are suspicions.

…I would like to see photos of the same knife, as mine. Where it is possible to find examples? You know?
To see the same model with the motto. I didn't find anywhere…

**Larry C** · 02-08-2013, 09:07 PM

I feel to bring light upon the HJ diamond issue would be to disasseble the grip plates if this is one of those rarities,,but in Peppers respect maybe it is not advisable for him to undertake this if he is not comfortable with it. Sometimes when 99% looks good there is always that 1% that can still be questionable,,and depending upon the individual and the lack of other source Diamonds of the same then io would say disassemble the grip plates and take apeak at the diamond.......BUT!!!!!..Hold on!! again do not do this if your not comfortable as it is not wise for anyone who lacks the experience of dissection.
Going between opposite opinions of 2 HJ giants " Mac" and "Hermann",,sometimes something like this is needed if this is a rarity not seen.....or something recently put there.
Truly the underside of the diamond itself will show the truth. Tough one Gents