Black finished WKC bayonet

**Jim P** · 05-11-2014, 02:28 PM

I must admit that I spoke incorrectly. I have done more digging and reading on this subject than I have on any other in a very long time and the general consensus is that no one seems to know, "for sure", why these were purchased with the black painted finish. Everything I have found regarding the finish has been "theory" only, nothing official. The only official part of the story, that is agreed upon, is that there was an order, in 1915, for front line officers to return their swords to the rear, as swords were useless in the trenches.

I hope that I did not cause any confusion, as that was not my intent. I will be more precise with my use of "official" in the future. Thanks Larry for catching this for me.

Still really enjoy the bayo that started this thread.

Jim

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 05-11-2014 02:28 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Larry C** · 05-11-2014, 04:37 PM

Although we do not physically dig the fields in archaeology...when we must further research for the truth..it is necessary to dig further. We who study are Archaeologists ..so no worries of confusion Jim

Sometimes rocks get in our way..and we have to dig or remove them to go deeper until we unearth what we are looking for. Your attention to the matter holds more weight.

Its been a good thread...in which whether or not..the truth is found....most importantly what is most satisfying is the "Will to try". If we dont try regardless of the outcome..we learn nothing..but something is always gained...even if it is small information...and is more than what found before.

For myself could not let go of the fact about the Sword miniature thread..that there was more to be found of the producer and the character of the mini sword. The extra digging did reveal more information which is quite supportive..of my first incorrect assumptions. Thanks to the other members who used gentle contradiction..I dug further.and admit the fact that I have learned something..that I only thought was a one way direction with the English word Germany.

If precise is available then the forum benefits greatly..but not all the time precise reference caan be obtained..and only partial information is better than none. The forum member and myself appreciate your supportive efforts here on this forum. Thank you for being a teaher here along with the rest of the teachers / members. Regards Larry

**Jim P** · 05-11-2014, 08:44 PM

If everyone shares what they know, and in some instances, what they have heard, and we all work towards that goal of "truth", sometimes the "truth" can be squeezed out of it all. One thing for sure, this will be one that I will always have my eyes and ears open for any new information.

Jim

**kirby** · 05-14-2014, 06:07 PM

This turned into an interesting thread. I was searching for more info on these black finished bayonets. I only came across one for sale. It was at gundersmilitaria. Not a company I have ever done business with but this was the only one I found. It is marked JA Henckles so WKC wasn't the only company to produce them.

**Frogprince** · 05-14-2014, 11:32 PM

The bayonet posted here IMO is a good one appropriate for the period.

With bluing also seen in addition to black paint - the order was also valid for swords. With the examples posted below, the government issue IOD 89 to the right is the original brass hilted version. And to its left the Kriegsmodell version in blued steel, with the period acceptance mark clearly visible on the pommel cap. Best Regards, Fred

**Jim P** · 05-15-2014, 12:05 AM

Fred, was there an order to blacken sidearms for front line troops? I had thought that there was an order, but have been unable to find any information to back it up.

Jim

**Frogprince** · 05-15-2014, 12:52 AM

by Jim P

Fred, was there an order to blacken sidearms for front line troops? I had thought that there was an order, but have been unable to find any information to back it up.

Jim

Jim, While I may have something on the order, I keep getting sidetracked from my primary project this year which is to bring some better organization to my files. Not a complaint - it is what it is but I need to be able to easily find it. With my best recollection 1915 being the year that this was done, and the blued IOD 89 sword I posted I believe actually dated 1916. With the distinction that I want make here being that the sword was new production. Having a serious doubt that the Germans at the time when the war was in progress had the time and resources to overhaul a bunch of preexisting sidearms. (And the "brush" type of bright metal bayonets are also not as reflective as the plated types.) But after the war it would not (or should not) have been an issue. With the Weimar and Weimar era and later recycled bayonets another matter being almost always blued, although I imagine that some "slipped through the cracks". Having pictures of some early types with bright finishes in use after WW I - but early on and fairly scarce. Best Regards, Fred

**Jim P** · 05-15-2014, 02:43 AM

Well, I'm glad that you have any records at all. Between the loss of one forum and a hard drive crash a few years ago, most of mine are gone except for the more recent additions on this computer and my less than reliable memory. I have a lot of hand written notes in my collection binder and notes in every free bit of space of my copy of Janzens. I look forward to seeing what you have, when time avails itself.

Jim