German Bayonet Identification

[wpheaton]

Many thanks to Stingray & MAP for their evaluations. Please let me list the good and the bad again for evaluation.

Nice stag handles/grips

Nice handle/pommel/cross guard

Nice blade - lightly sharpened but obvious

Brown Leather Frog - very dry with tear to securing hole for scabbard

Black Scabbard in good condition with one dent on back

Eickhorn marked blade but no other visible markings I could see

Estimated value $150 possibly to $200

Any other comments or suggestions?

Thanks,

William

[Frogprince]

One thing that I would add to the list is that it's the wrong type of frog. Due to its size and style of stitching etc. looking like a frog for a S.98/05 combat bayonet that is much larger. Best Regards, Fred

[wpheaton]

One thing that I would add to the list is that it's the wrong type of frog. Due to its size and style of stitching etc. looking like a frog for a S.98/05 combat bayonet that is much larger. Best Regards, Fred

Thanks Frogprince for your insight and comments.

[Sleepwalker]

Hello,

is indeed not surprising, because this is not a K98k bayonet. A K98k bayonet never existed... some Modells, called
otherwise, fits the K98k and the other rifels the german army used. So a other designation for this Subforum, like "German bayonets" were much meaningful.

This bayonet is a Extra-Seitengewehr. The inaccurate translation means a "dress bayone" or "walking out bayonet". In fact every soldier (Army, Airforce, Navi or SS) was able to by such a bayonet in the execution he liked and he could pay.

Eikhorn produce differnt versions of dress bayonets. With three differnet hilt forms, long blade, short blade, plastik grips, staghorn grips, etchings and combined with each other. Versions and prices you can read in the Eikhorn catalog of this time.

You have a Extra-Seitengewehr in the execution long blade and stanghorn grips. This dress bayonet is not useable with a rifle and only made for dekoration.
The hilt is made out of a nickel plated zinc alloy and not durable enough for nomal service. The blade made out of plated steel is riveted with the hilt.

The frog ist not correct... this is a frog of the S98/05 out of the frist world war. You need a walking out frog.


Regards

[wpheaton]

Hello,

is indeed not surprising, because this is not a K98k bayonet. A K98k bayonet never existed... some Modells, called
otherwise, fits the K98k and the other rifels the german army used. So a other designation for this Subforum, like "German bayonets" were much meaningful.

This bayonet is a Extra-Seitengewehr. The inaccurate translation means a "dress bayone" or "walking out bayonet". In fact every soldier (Army, Airforce, Navi or SS) was able to by such a bayonet in the execution he liked and he could pay.

Eikhorn produce differnt versions of dress bayonets. With three differnet hilt forms, long blade, short blade, plastik grips, staghorn grips, etchings and combined with each other. Versions and prices you can read in the Eikhorn catalog of this time.

You have a Extra-Seitengewehr in the execution long blade and stanghorn grips. This dress bayonet is not useable with a rifle and only made for dekoration.
The hilt is made out of a nickel plated zinc alloy and not durable enough for nomal service. The blade made out of plated steel is riveted with the hilt.

The frog ist not correct... this is a frog of the S98/05 out of the frist world war. You need a walking out frog.


Regards

Thank You Sleepwalker, This is wonderful information and exactly what I was hoping to receive. Thank yo for being such a valuable member to this forum.

William

[Frogprince]

Being in general agreement with Sleepwalker I would like to add a little background and additional information to the discussion. On the West Coast where I started my collecting the general practice was to call both the WW II German rifles and bayonets "98K's" (Karabiner 98kurz) after the rifle as an abbreviated way to distguish them from the WW I long and short barrel rifles and their bayonets. But anoher perhaps more substantial reason IMO that this is not a "98K" bayonet is that it's actually a private purchase copy of the Kurzes Seitengewehr M 1898 combat bayonet, often referred to as the "KS 98", with some German collectors I believe using Seitengewehr Typ KS 1898. Having a vague recollection that needs to be checked of the "Extra" meaning extra cost (as in a private purchase) - which would apply equally I think to a dress or walking out bayonet for off duty wear. Best Regards, Fred

[wpheaton]

Being in general agreement with Sleepwalker I would like to add a little background and additional information to the discussion. On the West Coast where I started my collecting the general practice was to call both the WW II German rifles and bayonets "98K's" (Karabiner 98kurz) after the rifle as an abbreviated way to distguish them from the WW I long and short barrel rifles and their bayonets. But anoher perhaps more substantial reason IMO that this is not a "98K" bayonet is that it's actually a private purchase copy of the Kurzes Seitengewehr M 1898 combat bayonet, often referred to as the "KS 98". Having a vague recollection that needs to be checked of the "Extra" meaning extra cost (as in a private purchase) - which would apply equally I think to a dress or walking out bayonet for off duty wear. Best Regards, Fred

Thanks Fred, I and others are very appreciative of your contributions.

William

[Sleepwalker]

Hello,

Extra- means more self provided bayonets in addition to the official equipment.

Since 1915 ist was allowed the senjor NCO and Officers to provide bayontes under this terms: useable like the official bayontes and for the weapon the unit was armed.

Regards

[Sleepwalker]

Being in general agreement with Sleepwalker I would like to add a little background and additional information to the discussion. On the West Coast where I started my collecting the general practice was to call both the WW II German rifles and bayonets "98K's" (Karabiner 98kurz) after the rifle as an abbreviated way to distguish them from the WW I long and short barrel rifles and their bayonets. But anoher perhaps more substantial reason IMO that this is not a "98K" bayonet is that it's actually a private purchase copy of the Kurzes Seitengewehr M 1898 combat bayonet, often referred to as the "KS 98", with some German collectors I believe using Seitengewehr Typ KS 1898. Having a vague recollection that needs to be checked of the "Extra" meaning extra cost (as in a private purchase) - which would apply equally I think to a dress or walking out bayonet for off duty wear. Best Regards, Fred

Hello,

yes this standard ID for a bayonet isn´t very usefull... and wrong because the germans never called this a Bajonett 98k. So often the Members of this form have the Problem with the classification.

The German used not only the Karabiner 98k but also the Gewehr 98, the Karabiner 98 and 98a, The Gewehr 24, Gewehr 33/40, Gewehr 40, Gewehr 41 and during the war a lot of captured weapons of the Mauser 98 System.

The german standard bayontes were the Seitengewehr 84/98 and the S98/05. This models fits all of the rifle models. During the war a lot of captuerd models come in addition who fits the K98k and the other german rifels and carabins.