I keep wondering if this is a dress bayonet why is there no evidence of plating?? Were there dress bayonets in production that were unplated?? Regards,Geoff
I keep wondering if this is a dress bayonet why is there no evidence of plating?? Were there dress bayonets in production that were unplated?? Regards,Geoff
In general agreement with Andy, the c. 1930's (German made) Spanish contract Seitengewehr 84/98 service bayonets have a polished steel finish (with blued scabbards) that I don't believe is stainless steel that if well preserved still has a good appearance. And while there can be a debate about what to call this or that I don't think that the term 'Dress Bayonet' necessarily applies here any more than it might to some of the fairly decorative types of German Police bayonets as private purchases. With my reasoning being that some of the KS98 type of bayonets such as those for an institution like the Reichsfinanzverwaltung (RFV) are not constructed like a standard dress (Extra-Seitengewehr) bayonet in two pieces, instead having a single forged blade/handle assembly. Also thinking that it could be a little later than the Weimar period having seen some German Army marked (ex-Wehrmacht) Seitengewehr 84/98 service bayonets that were subsequently given to the RFV in the 1930's, agreeing that the frog looks like it's probably a later (unmarked) Luftwaffe example. Best Regards, Fred
Hello,
on one pic the hilt shows little trades of plating.
The blade seems to be plated.
The press stud is replaced by one of a S84/98... the scratches on hilt and grips indicates a grinding.
Maybe someone has "create" a "look a like a RFV Bayonet".
Regards
Maybe so, but there are some other indicators that I think should also be taken into account. Not in hand an examination in sunlight is usually fairly useful at this point in determining plating versus polished steel, with both types seen on some of the RFV marked - KS98 bayonets (which were just used as an example like those from the Spanish contract to illustrate a point). That said, while there is what looks like some relatively minor areas of old rust on the hilt and some signs of it being removed and dark spots on the blade, there is also no discernible sign of any plating being lifted and peeling away. With the same to be said for the press button/stud which looks like it might be secured by a swaging process, and rivets that don’t look new combined with the commensurate blued scabbard and TR era style number font etc. - so perhaps it’s just what it appears to be using the photos that we have(?). Best Regards, Fredby Sleepwalker
Hello,
i taken three pictures to show my observations.
There are litle Parts of nickel plating still on the bayonet (blue zones). It looks like the bayonet became over-worked. In the red marked Details are typical evidence vor this.
On the hilt you can see the trades of a soft grinding, possibly a finish by a steel brush. On the hilt you can see rough and depth scratches going from the plastic grips to the steel or reverse. It is not possible that this developed in the production of the bayonet.
So i´m to be convinced, that the bayonet is overworked and cleand at a later time and the press stud has been replaced. In the original this was a normal early dress bayonet.
The origin of the number on the balde is irreproducible.
The blued scabbard is not extraordinary for a early made dress bayonet. Not few makers blued scabbards in later times.
In litle contracts to authorities, manly the Banhschutz (Railway Protection Police), this type of scabbard were also used in the early 1930 ´th years.
But the frogs studes have only three groves.
For a use in Export i have no Information. The Export-bayontes a know - to South-America, Portugal and Spain - all used other Scabbards.
The scabbards of the RFV bayonets are a little bit differnet... amongst others they habe only two groves in the frog stud
The Postschutz used normal dress bayonets with black laquerd scabbards... the only differnt is the DRP stamp and the number.
Some Railway bayonets have what I am going to call a 'normal' 84/98 scabbard without a lip, but that's not really on topic so that's all I have to say before getting back to the thread starter. So from my perspective while it's not in sunlight and might be a little over-magnified, the interior cleaning rod channel and exterior seem to have the same aged spotted/corrosion tarnished appearance inside and out. So I ask myself why is that? Using as a contrast, an export/Spanish contract example having some small spots of corrosion/age on the pommel and cross guard being finished with a brush/satin type of polishing. As is the blade (which as expected is/was better protected) having a smooth satin like appearance - not smooth bright and shinny with a hint of a color tint like nickel plating. When looked at as a group some variables being seen with the different KS and/or Dress types (in other words they don't seem to be all completely uniform unlike the ex-Wehrmacht Seitengewehr 84/98 service type of RFV bayonets which includes the style of markings). Best Regards, Fred
Thank you both very much for your generous information! Fred a comment you made struck a chord with me when you used the term Brushed/Satin finish.That is indeed what I was trying to convey in my description and my question regarding whether or not there were "Rostfrei" Bayonets? Here is a similar finish on a Luftwaffe Gravity knife that prompted the question.Of course the blade cross-graining runs horizontally on the Gravity knife blade and if I am correct the graining/brush marks run vertically on the bayonet blade but I think you can understand what I am describing.
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