K98 Bayonet - Friedrich Abraham Herder und Söhne

[sb98]

Glad you didn't take any offense, none was intended. I mentioned I thought yours had been cleaned because there's no wear pattern to the bluing loss - it's uniform across the hilt, scabbard body, and the nuts on the grip.

Hard to nitpick your dot, that's a beauty.

[Frogprince]

Glad you didn't take any offense, none was intended. I mentioned I thought yours had been cleaned because there's no wear pattern to the bluing loss - it's uniform across the hilt, scabbard body, and the nuts on the grip.

Hard to nitpick your dot, that's a beauty.

Well stated, other bayonets from them of the same vintage having the matte rust blued finish, I was wondering if my screen was acting up? Later of course Herder switched to the brighter/smoother hot dip bluing process just like CZ did. Best Regards, Fred

[Lexis]

I think that de veteran "bring backs" bayonets are in better condition .
Because they where seen as a trophy
But here in europe when they where left behind people took them with them to use them . remember this was just after the war . there was nothing .
Most of them where left in barns
90 % of the bayonnets i own are " worn" and i was the 1ste buyer !

[Anderson]

And I wouldn't assume the loss of bluing finish is because someone "heavily cleaned" it recently. If there was evidence of rust pitting then that may be the case. Many combat used bayonets that saw five years or more of continuous service lost blued finish from handling. And in WW2 photos you can often see bayonets where the blued finish is worn away. It's this variety of tones and patina that make the collecting of these bayonets interesting. As they are not all the same. Because a former owner has removed the the grip plates doesn't in my mind in any way downgrade the bayonet. I wouldn't encourage it but it does happen.

[sb98]

And I wouldn't assume the loss of bluing finish is because someone "heavily cleaned" it recently. If there was evidence of rust pitting then that may be the case. Many combat used bayonets that saw five years or more of continuous service lost blued finish from handling. And in WW2 photos you can often see bayonets where the blued finish is worn away. It's this variety of tones and patina that make the collecting of these bayonets interesting. As they are not all the same. Because a former owner has removed the the grip plates doesn't in my mind in any way downgrade the bayonet. I wouldn't encourage it but it does happen.

No assumptions here, just experience and the photos posted. Of course bayonets can lose some finish as they're worn, but IMO cleaning seems more likely than the bluing wearing off an entire piece this uniformly. If it had so much wear that all the finish was worn off, why no little dings or other signs of heavy, long term use? We've all seen plenty of instances where people who aren't collectors polish away a finish on an antique because they think it's dirt or tarnish. The reversed grip screws and a frog that looks like it may have been treated with some sort of conditioner also point to it being worked on. I'm not trying to diminish this bayonet, it is what it is. How it got that way is really just an educated guess for any of us unless we were there.

[Rossi]

No assumptions here, just experience and the photos posted. Of course bayonets can lose some finish as they're worn, but IMO cleaning seems more likely than the bluing wearing off an entire piece this uniformly. If it had so much wear that all the finish was worn off, why no little dings or other signs of heavy, long term use? We've all seen plenty of instances where people who aren't collectors polish away a finish on an antique because they think it's dirt or tarnish. The reversed grip screws and a frog that looks like it may have been treated with some sort of conditioner also point to it being worked on. I'm not trying to diminish this bayonet, it is what it is. How it got that way is really just an educated guess for any of us unless we were there.

I have posted some more close up pictures. I cannot speculate on the finish loss or cleaning as it was as I bought it years ago for 45.00 at a veteran's estate sale. There are traces of the bluing still there on bayonet pommel and guard. The scabbard could have been cleaned by the veteran. Either way it is still a viable collectible in good shape.

[Rossi]

And I wouldn't assume the loss of bluing finish is because someone "heavily cleaned" it recently. If there was evidence of rust pitting then that may be the case. Many combat used bayonets that saw five years or more of continuous service lost blued finish from handling. And in WW2 photos you can often see bayonets where the blued finish is worn away. It's this variety of tones and patina that make the collecting of these bayonets interesting. As they are not all the same. Because a former owner has removed the the grip plates doesn't in my mind in any way downgrade the bayonet. I wouldn't encourage it but it does happen.

I used to have a period photo a wehrmacht soldier wearing a bayonet that the scabbard looked stripped shiny with no bluing. Wish I could locate it.

[AndyB]

Maker is not Friedrich Abraham Herder. but F.Herder Abr.Sn. which is sometimes wrongly declared, as Rich.Abraham Herder is the other maker of Solingen.
The screws in first pictured were wrongly mounted, other size as normal position. b.r.Andy