K98 bayonet, thoughts?

[stahlelm16]

Dannyjunkfish, if the frog looks fragile, you can use simple hand cream to make the leather more soft.But you have to make this several times, because, especially the first times, the frog "drinks" the cream. One time that the frog has became more soft, you can remove it without problems.In my experience hand cream is a very good system for every object made in leather.

[Jim P]

I appreciate the info shared on this one but would like to get a little clarification on what type of grip material should be on a 43asw. I understand that "Refurbs" were done during the war. But what was the exact/correct grip material during 1943 manufacturing process? I would like to hear what is the correct , out of the factory description of this manufacture and year.
I also have to add that my 43asw is one of those that has the matching serial #'s on the scabbard but marked as 44asw on the scabbard. I know the story about the markings but would like to hear about my question above about the grip material used for these. So what can the Bayo experts add to this grip material question?
Semper Fi
Phil


l

Horster was the largest producer of the WWII era 84/98 and even in 43-44, they were still cranking them out when other manufacturers were tailing off. In my experience, late production Horster grips tend to jump around from the dark bakelite to wood and back. Then in 43 you start seeing the redish, orange bakelite. They are that color due to the high use of wood filler used in the mixture. You will also find different shades of wood, from blonde to dark brown.

So, for what ever reason, Horster was still able to source steel for bayonet production, but was having a very hard time finding consistent grip material. I imagine they started using up any old stocks they had and then started buying up what ever material they could from other sources. Someone,such as Andy or Fred, may have exact production codes for when the grips changed and changed back, but I don't. I would say just about any grip material on a late dated Horster could be correct. I also don't believe any late 43 or 44 dated bayonets would have had the time to be issued, used and then sent back for refurbishment and reissue. There were more pressing issues going on that late in the war.

Jim

[Jim P]

Dannyjunkfish, if the frog looks fragile, you can use simple hand cream to make the leather more soft.But you have to make this several times, because, especially the first times, the frog "drinks" the cream. One time that the frog has became more soft, you can remove it without problems.In my experience hand cream is a very good system for every object made in leather.

Never, use any petroleum based products on old, dry leather. Yes, it will soften it up and make it more pliable, but years later it will cause it to "rot" or start breaking down the fibers of the leather. Even most hand lotions have some form of petroleum products in them, read the label and you would be surprised. Once leather has dried out there isn't alot you can do with it, but I have had good success with a product called Pecards. It is non-petroleum based and will keep soft leather conditioned with a very light "OCCASIONAL" use. It will soften old dry leather to a point, but once it has been allowed to get brittle, the best advice I can give is treat it with Pecards and handle it very little.

Jim

[Time Bandit]

My 43asw with matching numbers has the wooden grips. The one I have doesn't seem to have been refurbished so I presume the grips are its original ones.

Here's a link to it... 43asw 6453hh

[harryamb2]

great set

[SRB]

as I think .............. scabard is used in yugoslavia,after war ..... like bayonet frog (it may be made or repaired) on rivet is ljubljana - slovenija ( part of yugoslavia)

1943 fze ( F.W Holler )

but wery nice set

[Dannyjunkfish]

as I think .............. scabard is used in yugoslavia,after war ..... like bayonet frog (it may be made or repaired) on rivet is ljubljana - slovenija ( part of yugoslavia)

1943 fze ( F.W Holler )

but wery nice set

Thanks great info.

[Sleepwalker]

Hallo,

this bayonet was refresched in former Yugoslavia after 1945. Typical dark blueing and trades. Also the Number of the frog stud is typical yugoslavian. The frog is not the original german conviguration. The strap is yugoslavian and had been added after 1948.

Regards

[Larry C]

Great Thread Gents

[Frogprince]

Postwar U.S. technical documentation provides some information on the later reddish colored bayonet grips: One of many wartime developments, due to a wartime shortage of phenolic resin a new type of molding compound was developed that used 20 - 25% (varies) of the resin at the beginning of 1943 with specific established physical specifications. It was called the 'Type 41' becoming mandatory if a plastic was to be used for bayonet and pistol grips, rifle hand guards, oil bottles - etc. etc. As Jim P noted there are variations depending on the time period, with my experience being that the earlier examples are redder and have smaller sized wood particles. With the later ones lighter and more of an orange with noticeably larger wood particles as a filler (presumably) compensating for a lesser amount of resin to bind it all together. PS to dagger collectors: While it was earlier, this is also why the cast phenolic resins * for those dagger grips that used it disappeared forcing makers to find substitutes (* Trolon is the brand name for just one specific maker). Best Regards, Fred