New guy with bayonet questions

[DerStuermer]

The last is a 84/98 2 or 3 model and the second is a KS98 privat buyed.

[rbminis]

Hello,

the first one isn´t a bayonet. It is a firemen knife, correctly called Faschinenmesser. Maker is Weyersberg, Kirschbaum und Co. Solingen (WKC). Fine condition, matching parts. These Faschinenmesser were not only for dress... also for service (look at the firemens orders since 1934).


Regards

You are correct, my mistake in terminology.
Ralph.

[Frogprince]

You are correct, my mistake in terminology.
Ralph.

Ralph, But I would hope that it's not something that should cause you too much consternation - because as I recall it has been mentioned elsewhere like the thread cited below. So it would seem that you have a lot of company, with the response there something like "whatever" (but not in a antagonistic way) if I remember it correctly - which in a way is not unlike trying to get "anodized" out of a dagger collectors vocabulary for bluing or browning:

"(The) Fire Bayonet Thread @ 376,298 views"

And as for the 84/98 service bayonet: Yes, that could certainly be a 1st World War vintage scabbard, with confirmation just needing a quick look at the other side (but I think that is what we will see). Likewise, a look at the bayonet's ricasso on the opposite side could reveal a maker's marking. But that IMO is not necessarily a given. As I have seen, and believe that I still have an original finish (OEM) service bayonet that was "scrubbed" (markings ground off) prior to bluing, but leaving a partial letter code on the ricasso - so apparently it was diverted at the factory to fill a 'commercial' contract instead of a military one. Which is also not unlike the "can" scabbards which had their maker markings also "scrubbed" off. Best regards to all, Fred

[Sleepwalker]

The Serialnumber etc. are only weak or faint stamped... you find often by middle - late war S84/98.

Until 1945 such bayonets were never reworked to made a "commercial" out of them... Such reworks are postwar

The scabbard is from a S84/98 n.A. and has been inverted in the last 60-70 Years. Not extraordinary.

Such scabbards you find as off 1934 on reworked S84/98 n.A. This bayontes were in service in the Wehrmacht, Police, SS and others... so a inverted scabbard can happen.

[Frogprince]

The Serialnumber etc. are only weak or faint stamped... you find often by middle - late war S84/98.

Until 1945 such bayonets were never reworked to made a "commercial" out of them... Such reworks are postwar

The scabbard is from a S84/98 n.A. and has been inverted in the last 60-70 Years. Not extraordinary.

Such scabbards you find as off 1934 on reworked S84/98 n.A. This bayontes were in service in the Wehrmacht, Police, SS and others... so a inverted scabbard can happen.

Didier (“bichon”) asked (post # 2), and Rob (“JoeFriday”) said (post # 8) that the only set of markings present was the one that he posted. And no followup pictures/information posted to either confirm or contradict what he originally stated. And from the one halfway closeup picture posted I don't really see the obvious signs of a postwar rework, agreeing that the Germans discontinued the practice in the earlier wartime years. So with that said, I think that there may be a misunderstanding. I was not speaking of an earlier period depot or postwar reworking. The bayonet that I was speaking of with the military style marking ground off is original in all ways including its blank scabbard. And I think that I may also have an otherwise identical same vintage example where no markings at all are visible - totally factory original.

PS: I checked my original recorded notation, and it says that it has a partially ground off pommel Waffenamt, and a secondary (post manufacture - but before bluing) ground ricasso. And no indication of a depot or postwar rework, which is also my recollection. With my point simply being that if they needed some bayonets to complete a ‘commercial’ contract - it was very easy (and more cost effective) to “borrow” a few from the military production line rather than to start from the beginning. Considering it just to be one of the oddities that you see once in a while. Like the dated military style markings Police bayonets (but no Waffenamts), or the no maker marked Police bayonets that have Waffenamts. Best regards, Fred

[Sleepwalker]

It is true, that parts of the produktion with WaA are used for commericial bayontes... but non with a complete Serialnumber. Or have you other exampels? The bayonet also show no signs of no postwar rework.

[Sleepwalker]

@JoeFriday. Can you please post a pic of the other side of the blade, the backside of the pommel and of the egde of the blade? Ist the blade sharped and re-blued?

[Frogprince]

The bayonet (actually neither of them) that I was speaking of has numbers, nor do the scabbards. But of course if it's "commercial bayonets" made by P. Weyersberg then yes, as that changes things, as they were not particularly adverse to putting serial numbers on their non-military contracts. And you can even find an occasional WKC "commercial" that's factory numbered. But not the combination of serial numbers and Waffenamts (with the Portuguese contract examples IMO in another category). Best regards, Fred

[JoeFriday]

Sirs, I appologize. I did not see the additional comments and questions. Upon closer inspection I did discover more numbers and markings on the opposite side of the bayonet handle and blade. The blade is sharp.

The numbers look like 43 backward S SW. Under the numbers and to the left is the eagle with WaA519

Thank you all so much.
Rob

[Richie B]

asw is the manufacturers mark of E & F Horster and 43 is the date of manufacture.