Hmmm... I think Chris is trying to tell us something. Call me prescient, but I can read between the lines!
Hmmm... I think Chris is trying to tell us something. Call me prescient, but I can read between the lines!
The fake seller is like so many others in this market, but it only gets worse. Casting vs. struck?.... Argument has been made many times and should not be too difficult a concept. However, this ring is a problem for me and I would not own it personally and will have to keep my eyes open for more examples that are similar. I do not think the German's would do this and it looks like a modified signet? or ring made for initials etc. The silverware connection is actually more of a problem than you think, add in the side patterns which are in no way similar in shape or form nor political and top that off with the construction and its not hard to walk away from this.
The struck vs. cast argument I think originated with the SS Honour Ring , back when cast fakes were flooded the market . Honour rings are struck .
The struck vs. cast argument I think originated with the SS Honor Ring , back when cast fakes were flooded the market . Honour rings are struck .[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this would be cast and certainly not an Honor ring. It would also be wrong for a number of reasons and the most notable flag is the eagle use. But the other issues are a little more opaque and you really do not have to be a ring expert as much as someone who spends a good amount of time looking at fakes and fantasies. I believe I am looking at a right and left floral pattern that contains a poppy on the rings shanks and even if its not a poppy the motif is not what you would expect to see. I do not think there is any way this ring is original and its probably post war and dressed up using an eagle based on the silverware if not cast off it. Now you need to show a ring where there is no doubt of originality where a German draws off the main design and go's to an overcooked floral motif that draws attention away from the central motif of a Reich Adler. The eagle itself has a finish that gives the impression its been copied, and if that is a poppy? your not even in the right country.
As far as an argument that people take on occasion, if its fake? " Show another one ". No, if others do not pop up in ring form they have in many cases already been in market in another form or they show up later in a new form.
And here is the clincher, look at the texture of that eagle, its a brand new modern cast with no wear to surfaces at all.
I've collected rings for over 50 years time. If you use your brain and know what you are looking at, there is no enormous danger in collecting them. It is when you get fake experts popping up with absurd statements that the doubts begin fomenting and suddenly nothing is ever original anymore. When 26 year old kids suddenly get a desire to be an "expert" in a field of which they know nothing 3 years previous-then you run into this nonsense. Other "experts" begin making blanket statements and dressing them in an air of undebatable empirical truth. Idiocy is then given a sheen of believability and then it has become "fact" and "the rule".
I have seen countless gaudy singly produced rings being worn by US military from WWI, WWII, Korea and Viet Nam eras and all the years in between and the Germans were no different. Some were field produced and some are produced by local jewelers, silversmiths and metal workers. Some were produced with amazing details and materials, while others were made out of junk and by amateurs. Some show heavy wear and some show virtually no wear. It depends on when they were made and how often they were worn. Maybe a soldier had a absurdly gaudy ring made and the very 1st time he wore it his officer spotted it and told him "Get rid of that thing!". Does he throw it away? Of course not. More likely, he sends it home for him to wear After the war is over-except that he did not Survive the war's end. Then what? Because something is not mass-produced suddenly makes it suspect and immediately discounted as fake? Ridiculous.
Frankly, I’m getting more than abit annoyed at the see-saw of opinions on ring collecting. When you have an item of unquestionable provenance and suddenly up pops some pompous self-made expert who sneers at how “Obviously Fake” the item is, it is just a tad bit enough to anger a person. This is why I refuse to post any photos of any of my rings anymore. There will never be something that satisfies Everyone. You show something that you Personally know is good and uncommonly seen, and Immediately you have to begin defending it against the waves of nay-sayers. If you want to collect rings-then by all means do so. But Know your subject. It’s no different than buying a black SS tunic or a double decal helmet. The fakes are out there-and in Quantity. If you don’t know what you are doing then you might just as well flush your money down the toilet.
William
"Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
most Nazis were small ?
Whats your point?. Because some novice calls a ring as fantasy and uses the wrong argument to make the point then people should ignore the obvious?. The ring is using a Hitler silverware Eagle, that is a problem, its not a ring collectors problem until now becuase it just showed up on one.by Wagriff
The ring plate exhibits file marks in the recess areas, there is solder slag in the eagles clutch next to the swaz, there is slag on the side where the plate mounts to the ring itself. The cast eagle shows no indication of wear at all and sits at a high point on the ring itself, there is no wear to the plate its mounted on leaving no wear to the two highest points on the ring yet wear is apparent to the ring itself giving the distinct impression that the ring or band was not made at the same time as the added eagle and eagle mounting plate.
There is a silver proof in the interior band that cannot be made out but the silver content is 800 which is the same content mark as found on rings and Hitler's silverware. Wear on the silverware varies but with handling and care it can vary when looking at the eagle, but one thing is for sure; a brand new piece of Hitler silver with a nice crispy eagle does not look like this. This eagle was cast yesterday and appled to a silver plate that was filed and shaped, neither the eagle nor the plate has any finishing work.
In addition the floral engraving is probably not German, if it is it does not go with that ring and the shank would have light scroll or no engraving in all probability as the Germans would focus on the political eagle. So you have a brand new eagle, a new mounting plate done at the same time, both mounted on a used ring with substandard non Germanic engraving "imo" and none of that has anything to do with rings to me, its all part of market and items in general. So your 50 years in rings is fine and dandy, but what your missing is the fact that the issue is not the ring as much as it is what fakers are doing and how their doing it.
The newbie who called this ring as fantasy is right, he just took the wrong argument to try and show it. And the mistake your making is taking it personal and as an issue of rings, when this is done every day on all kinds of items and today its a ring. The faults on the piece should be enough for a reasonable person to look at it and say "No, its hokey, improbable, sloppy, and not at all convincing". But you would need to know more than rings, you would need to know a lot more than rings.
Its a Frankenstein creation and a clear shot of the silver proof should be posted to see if the bands country of origin can be pinned down.
Another self-declared expert? I rest my case...
William
"Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
Put your money on the table champ, you dont even know what I know. All you see is a post count, I see the same on you and it means nothing. What is in my explanation that you take issue with?. Is That you William Kramer?
Pick through line by line of that diatribe and point out the errors? I don't have the time to waste arguing with the wall. And, no-I'm Not William Kramer...
William
"Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
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