Strange totenkopfrings

[odal]

Maybe my not so good very old school english

Yes, only similar patterns are proofed - but maybe the future brings more exact knowlede on the pattern of this thread.

[youthcollector1]

[odal]

Thanks for showing here.
A well known advert amoung a lot of others.

[youthcollector1]

Thanks for showing here.
A well known advert amoung a lot of others.

Indeed, but for some reason it hasn't been shown yet in this thread; It shows said example.

When I was young, a certain dealer took advantage of me by using his opinion to make me believe something fake was real. Since I realized what he was doing, I've decided to go by only facts, and never opinions, seeing how opinions are usually wrong.

[Wagriff]

Hello Odal and welcome to the forum! The ring you show is, indeed, the finished Silver version of the white metal trial rings that Frundsberg has shown. Seeing one finished properly and in a feasible metal is interesting for sure! One thing to keep in mind about these rings is that, while, yes-they were popular in the WWII era, but that they were being manufactured both Before the war and After as well. Even to this day, it is possible(as amply shown by your nice ring) to pick one up in Europe and elsewhere. There is nothing exclusive with them that says "This is a WWII ring Only". The skull design has been quite popular in many many countries and still is today over a century past when they first began to be seen. It was a natural, of course, that the fighting Soldier would take notice of them and want one for themselves, and they absolutely Did, but they have Never been just a military man's ring or just a WWII ring and are still not even to this day. Their popularity in the war made them evocative of that era but nothing more, of course.

The pieces that Frundsberg has are very interesting and we've speculated that they could possibly have been made as pour sample to test a ring design mold and they almost certainly are. Aluminum is not a metal that cast rings are generally made of, as it is a devilishly difficult to bend and solder together metal-and, indeed, why bother with it when there are plenty of easy to work with and cheap non-precious metals that could have been chosen from? It is likely they were simply made to see what detailing the mold in their possession had(whether they Made it or purchased it themselves is unknown) As for Who or Why the mold was produced, that is another question altogether. As is seen by Your ring example, Silver was apparently the intended metal for the final product but I can see no reason that a Gold one could not be also produced or any other base metal or precious. It is not being touted as a "WWII Ring", but, rather, it is a ring that is absolutely Modern but "produced in the Traditional Old Style". An unscrupulous person could, of course, rough it up abit and buff it down to produce supposed signs of wear and Then pretend to the unwary buyer that it was a Wartime ring, but this is not the case here. Personally, I like your ring and think it's kind of interesting to see the old design still being produced today. It's unsettling as to the Potential misuse of these rings, as I said, by unscrupulous sellers and this should only be yet another example of "Know your Seller and Where your ring Came from" if one is looking to purchase an iconic wartime worn ring!

[Frundsberg]

Thank You very much! The ring that our forum member Odal has seems to be exatly the same ring. My rings are also die strucked, not casted. Casted rings can never have such clear details but of course - it is cheap to produce them. Die stucked rings need special machinery, a skilled silversmith who can engrave the dies etc. As far I know many so called cantine rings are made by casting technology.

Of course I will be very happy when the rings I have turn out to be pre 1945 made items. But it is not also bad if someone can prove they are just fakes - so we can all learn that there are some new fakes on the market and can avoid them.

[odal]

Hello Odal and welcome to the forum! The ring you show is, indeed, the finished Silver version of the white metal trial rings that Frundsberg has shown. Seeing one finished properly and in a feasible metal is interesting for sure! One thing to keep in mind about these rings is that, while, yes-they were popular in the WWII era, but that they were being manufactured both Before the war and After as well. Even to this day, it is possible(as amply shown by your nice ring) to pick one up in Europe and elsewhere. There is nothing exclusive with them that says "This is a WWII ring Only". The skull design has been quite popular in many many countries and still is today over a century past when they first began to be seen. It was a natural, of course, that the fighting Soldier would take notice of them and want one for themselves, and they absolutely Did, but they have Never been just a military man's ring or just a WWII ring and are still not even to this day. Their popularity in the war made them evocative of that era but nothing more, of course.

The pieces that Frundsberg has are very interesting and we've speculated that they could possibly have been made as pour sample to test a ring design mold and they almost certainly are. Aluminum is not a metal that cast rings are generally made of, as it is a devilishly difficult to bend and solder together metal-and, indeed, why bother with it when there are plenty of easy to work with and cheap non-precious metals that could have been chosen from? It is likely they were simply made to see what detailing the mold in their possession had(whether they Made it or purchased it themselves is unknown) As for Who or Why the mold was produced, that is another question altogether. As is seen by Your ring example, Silver was apparently the intended metal for the final product but I can see no reason that a Gold one could not be also produced or any other base metal or precious. It is not being touted as a "WWII Ring", but, rather, it is a ring that is absolutely Modern but "produced in the Traditional Old Style". An unscrupulous person could, of course, rough it up abit and buff it down to produce supposed signs of wear and Then pretend to the unwary buyer that it was a Wartime ring, but this is not the case here. Personally, I like your ring and think it's kind of interesting to see the old design still being produced today. It's unsettling as to the Potential misuse of these rings, as I said, by unscrupulous sellers and this should only be yet another example of "Know your Seller and Where your ring Came from" if one is looking to purchase an iconic wartime worn ring!

Thanks Wagriff for welcome!
And thanks also for a lot of explaining, although this are no real news for me.
My collecting area are german military/patriotic rings 33 to 45. I collect them years and own a "few" of them.
Mainly i fully agree with your explaining/opinion. But there maybe still some little missunderstandings.

The first ring i showed - the ready made of Frundsbergs blanks - is also aluminium and die strucked - not cast. And i forgot to tell - it still has in the deeper sections (par example in the teeth area) rest of black paint. This method was in the old times sometimes used to make a sharp contrast. An other sign for traditional manufacturing.
So we have her blanks/a ring made in the correct way and style. But untill now nobody can say to wich time.

The other two rings i showed are only silver examples of very similar patterns period proofed.

[Wagriff]

The ring you posted in post #6 is aluminum? Interesting, as it certainly has the appearance, at least, of silver. Perhaps it is silver plated? Although, I've never seen silver applied to aluminum before, it wouldn't be Impossible, with the proper undercoating, I imagine. As for applying blacking to highlight the indented detailing, this is no large problem and is still done today, of course. Do you have a good provenance for this ring? Unfortunately, nothing I've seen here with both Frundsberg's blanks as well as your ring in Post #6 indicates anything definitive to date these to WWII and I'm having to err on the side of caution here when I say that I am still of the opinion that these are of post-war manufacture.

[odal]

The ring you posted in post #6 is aluminum? Interesting, as it certainly has the appearance, at least, of silver. Perhaps it is silver plated? Although, I've never seen silver applied to aluminum before, it wouldn't be Impossible, with the proper undercoating, I imagine. As for applying blacking to highlight the indented detailing, this is no large problem and is still done today, of course. Do you have a good provenance for this ring? Unfortunately, nothing I've seen here with both Frundsberg's blanks as well as your ring in Post #6 indicates anything definitive to date these to WWII and I'm having to err on the side of caution here when I say that I am still of the opinion that these are of post-war manufacture.

Yes, this ring is for 100 % sure made from aluminium. No plating there. Deeper sections rests of black paint (maybe the not so good pics).

And, of course, opinions sometimes go different.
In the case of this aluminum rings i have, i told it before, untill now no own opinion. I think it can be "all" (pre war/war/post war).
So for me a keeper untill i find while searching/researching more knowlede on exact this pattern.

thanks

[youthcollector1]

I'm thinking he's trying to convey that their is no proof of wether his ring was produced, pre, war-time, or post-war, therefore in his mind, it is possible, and likely, it was produced during the war; at least until it is proven otherwise. That is a opinion, IMO, an opinion which I do respect, however, have to disagree with. I will not say that the ring is post-war for certain, but I will say, without any evidence, that's what I'd label it as. This is probably due to my sinister side, but their is to many fakes, especially rings, to account otherwise. That and the metal as well as other thing just don't sit well with me. I will say however, I know very little about these rings and even less about metal work. I am purely going off of what I've learned from other collectors as well as period documents I've seen.