Stutthof Find

[hucks216]

An interesting find - if genuine - near the site of the Stutthof camp. It does seem strange that a pile of discarded clothing and shoes up to a foot high could remain undiscovered for so long. The link is to a short article..



https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war...eath-camp.html

[CARL]

Thanks Kevin, I have just been talking to Matt about this find after he kindly brought it to my attention this evening.

Firstly, I must point out that the article should state the vastness of the immediate forested area...believe me, having spent several days on site earlier this year, purely to conduct a detailed study of the KZ-Stutthof site, I can confirm that the forested area - much of which is pretty dense, goes on for many miles. The area is also a very popular place for camping and walkers, such as those mentioned in the article. Stutthof has had an issue with people crossing fences etc in the immediate vicinity of the museum area - for example, the former Judenlager (Jewish Camp), a section of the Neue Lager (New Camp), present from 1943-1945, is entirely overgrown and fenced off - see the attachment below which was taken through the fence. However,I believe that it is entirely possible that hikers have stumbled upon something that has been hidden for many years, within a part of the forest that is rarely seen. They have probably found a point from one of the forced evacuation marches.

Carl

[matty01]

definitely an interesting article. Could clothing have survived outside for 70 years? Why would the clothing have been stacked up to a foot high?

All interesting!

I would be interested to see more pictures if any come about. The shoes to me look mega old and as expected.

I hope any findings end up at the strutthof museum.

Thanks for posting the photo Carl, it gives us a good perception of the woods.

[CARL]

Below are a few images of note:

1) Compare this example I personally stumbled across at Auschwitz-II Birkenau (cca 2005) to those recently found near KZ-Stutthof. This was sitting among rubble - the remains of a chimney stack from one the former barracks located in compound BIIf, aka Häftlingskrankenbau (Prisoner Infirmary). As I meandered around the area, which it MUST be noted is well off the beaten track and within the ruins left many years ago following the clean up operations, I noticed this object sticking out between the red bricks. The reason for posting this image again now, is to highlight that despite the passage of time, these items are still out there...as are, tragically, many other things related to the masses who were tormented and killed within the KZ system. Principally, the Birkenau site is a vast wide open expanse of land yet despite this, the majority of the territory remains untouched by the million or so regular visitors the site receives annually. Stutthof however, although a much smaller site, is still a large camp - it was one of the major SS Konzentrationslagers of the day. The wooded areas it is located in are very large as already noted in this thread, and again, like the site at Birkenau, will patently have areas that are almost never seen, especially the heavily wooded parts where forced marches could well have passed through many years ago before nature claimed the land as her own. I understand any questions related to the "foot high" pile of clothing etc and like the rest, would be glad to see more related images. The Auschwitz shoe find was addressed in the thread linked below:

Auschwitz shoe

2-3) At the Stutthof museum site, located within part of the permanent exhibition...a large pile of shoes taken from the prisoners upon arrival at the camp

4) Note the artists impression of the area on this information board located near the camp - if it is shaded grey, it lies within the museum area...if not, it is mostly overgrown...and this goes on for miles...

Carl

[Larry C]

Great info Carl as always

Looking at the one photo through the barbed wire border...shows trees and brush over grown in a once flat area. My thoughts ofsome of the belongings tht were left behind..may have been buried at that time where as others were not. It makes sense that the new trees grown in that place may have churned and twisted the earth beneath upwards through the trees growing. This is a common site I have witnessed here in older areas..where houses from a by gone time once were. I have seen hinges and horse shoes next to a lone 75 yr old tree..out in the middle of no where.

Could it be the same theory of some of these belongings still found today may be protected by the earth beneath.? My statement applies to the single items found alone on the ground only .

I cant imagine what may have protected the recent pile found..or possibly heavy brush or a once embankment to where they were discarded. Great Find and Link Hucks..thanks for posting. . Regards Larry

[matty01]

I like Larrys theory, I too have seen it. Also worms will move things to the top by squiggly below the item.

Its quite a reminder of the woods dark history. I bet you wouldn't dig or even look too hard before you came onto human remains.

Keep ya eyes out for updates gents be interesting to find out more.

[CARL]

Its quite a reminder of the woods dark history. I bet you wouldn't dig or even look too hard before you came onto human remains.

Sad, but very true...and not at just one locale either, for example, the entire site at KZ-Krakau-Plaszow was covered in truck loads of ashes shortly before the SS left the camp, several of the former Vernichtungslagers (Extermination Camps) presently reveal human remains whenever heavy periods of rain fall...other sites, as I have mentioned elsewhere, reveal evidence of this the darkest chapter in modern history...even after all these years...fortunately, some are able to afford them the appropriate burial and commemoration.

Carl

[matty01]

Carl, I can recall you telling us that the ashes were spread throughout the site of Plaszow on the last tour. Firstly the ashes were loaded up on a truck (See I was listening)

Keep us posted Carl, Best matt

[CARL]

Indeed you were listening Matt, thank you.

Yes, prior to the abandonment of the main camp at Krakau-Plaszow, a two month long operation to exhume and burn the remains of victims from the earlier mass executions was undertaken. According to survivor testimonies, the ashes were then loaded onto 17/18 trucks, if memory serves me rightly, before being spread across the entire camp grounds. Soviet forces found nothing but an open expanse of land with sparse foundation remains.

Plaszow Concentration Camp

Carl

[CARL]

As is often the case, the media have not got their facts quite right...

The recent find near the museum grounds is actually related to activity from the years 1945-1962. During this period, the former camp grounds were unsecured and open to both the elements and visitors to the area alike. Critically, this is also before the establishment of the Stutthof Museum and at a time that saw the movement of much material in and around the area. Some of the vast piles of material present on the former Konzentrationslager-Stutthof grounds post liberation is shown in the attachment below - much more was shifted, buried or utilised in surrounding areas in the years that followed. This recent find is of no great surprise to the museum staff, who are well aware of the "treasure" hunters in the area. Yet what has recently been discovered, is not from the immediate aftermath of the camp's evacuation or a forced march as such, instead, it is a pile of material originally from the camp, but later moved to another location in the vicinity.

The Shoes of Stutthof

The largest pile of shoes found on the site was located near to the former Judenlager (Jewish Camp) - addressed albeit briefly earlier in the thread. The pile, measuring some 24 x 12 x 4.5 metres in size, was calculated to contain no fewer than 400,000 pairs of shoes. The total number of shoes found on the grounds of the former camp was approximately half a million pairs. Under Soviet control, material was regarded as war booty and claimed by the new occupiers. Later, civilians also appropriated materials from the site. From 1962, the museum began the expansive clean up operation. Today, a large pile of prisoner shoes remains within the permanent exhibition at Museum Stutthof and is pictured earlier in this thread.

Carl