Allgemeine SS em cap opinions

[BenVK]

This is an interesting cap. For me, it has all the characteristics of a Clemens Wagner but the label says Otto Schlientz. Another Schlientz SS cap appeared on the WAF some time ago and was dismissed by some because of the Stirndruckfrei sweatband, but after some digging around, another Schlientz cap, although Heer this time was discovered that confirmed that the Stirndruckfrei feature was a feature of this maker.
I'll post some photos here to illustrate.

[BenVK]

Hard to see but it was confirmed as # 26.

[blackheart0866]

I'm still waiting for F-B to let us all know, as he is the fore-most expert on these.

Brian

[BenVK]

Take a look at the shape of the celluloid shields. The shape is the same for both Schlientz shields. Wagner had the rounded top part of the shield and is quite noticable. The cap in question along with another cap identified as a CW.

[wolfslair]

Thanks you gentlemen for some interesting insight.
I have no doubt that this is a genuine and period made piece, it's only detracting feature is the very dry, brittle and cracked sweatband. Ben, you have exellent knowledge of the manufacture of caps so should I be concerned about the variation in the celuloid diamond. I also recall that the other known samples of Schlientz
A-SS caps have had their sweatbands replaced.
Maybe Schlientz chose an inferior quality leather?
Regards,
Wolfslair.

[BenVK]

The cap that started this thread is without doubt an authentic cap IMO. Also, and just IMO, it shows more traits of a CW cap than an Otto Schlientz. Was there a mix up with the tags? Was Schlientz a distributer for CW caps? These are the details that keep me fascinated with the hobby and not the simple "original or fake" questions which definitely do not apply to this cap.
No one has mentioned the fact that this cap has an "ersartz" chinstrap yet for instance. Does that constitute a later era black cap? When were the last black caps made, 1943? later? This example does not have the maroon sweatband and steel grey lining of the ones I would consider "the last" but it surely is not an early example.

[BenVK]

I'm still waiting for F-B to let us all know, as he is the fore-most expert on these.

Brian

Agreed and I, for one, relish his input. However, have you considered that prehaps he might feel an unwanted responsibility to pass a judgement based on photograghic images? This is totaly unfair and unacceptable to him or anyone else who has the slightest knowlede of these things.
I'm sure that FB feels the same way that a I do and a lot of other collectors. Happy to share knowledge, not so happy to be an evaluation service for those who seek the easy answers without effort.

[blackheart0866]

I agree with you, as I'm sure he is wanting the rest of the younger collectors to start learning these items, So that we all can keep this going for all future generations to come.

The only way for this to happen is to learn from the experts in here, as My son is 17, and hes wanting to learn as much as possible about these items also.

So we both are doing this as hobby together, as this hobby helps me cope, and deal with some shit in my life, i almost get lost when i come in here, and read, and look at everyone's post.

Thanks
Brian

[ian]

guys loverly to hear your veiws on this cap
ill stick my neck out and say it is not an original cap IMHO
i have nothing to lose by saying this but i stand by what i have said
cheers ian

[ian]

we are al;so being shown pics of diferent caps
the first pics of the cap ??well to me there is no age
look at the other pics i think there are 3 different caps involved in this
???????????????