Allgemeine SS em cap opinions

**Jan** · 07-07-2010, 08:57 PM

Hello mr Friedrich-Berthold

Fantastic for me, this is the real dream cap ! I love all about it really. Absolutely marvelous!

Thank you for showing

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-07-2010 08:57 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 07-07-2010, 09:02 PM

by Jan

Hello mr Friedrich-Berthold

Fantastic for me, this is the real dream cap ! I love all about it really. Absolutely marvelous!

Thank you for showing

It is for sale, in fact, but it is not mine and I do not have a financial interest in same, either. Nor do I have a financial interest in much of anything save my own collection, some of which I have shown here.

Lubstein made more than one of these peaked caps.
Their black officers' hats are infrequently seen, however.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 07-08-2010, 02:19 AM

These authentic caps are for sale, also, at rather high prices.
The dealer in question has aroused some controversy, which is not my thing.

These are authentic. The Sonderanfertigung is of the Mueller Muenchen firm. This cap may have been the property of an officer in the SS Nachrichtensturmbann of the SSVT, but maybe not. I cannot follow all the names, i.e. those of left, got booted out, died etc. If you secured the man's Stammrollenkarte, you could ascertain his head size...in fact.

Notice here, too, the proverbial Wagner flimsy cello shield in a reasonable state of preservation.

**wolfslair** · 07-08-2010, 06:42 AM

by d'alquen

Actually, I think there is considerable doubt that this is an original article. If I were doing an appraisal on this hat the negatives I would highlight would be:
The leather chin strap has an internal stamp similar to the peak. That is the incorrect RZM stamping for a strap.
As Ben pointed out the diamond is the wrong shape for the manufacturer.
The RZM tag, in my opinion, is not an original.
One of these factors alone would have me questioning the cap. All three make me feel very uneasy.
d'alquen

Thank you d'alquen for your valid observations. May I ask in what way does the RZM tag ring alarm bells. The photo that I have shown does not accuratly portray the tag that I see in front of me.
As we all know, digital photography can be a finicky art. I've looked back to the many images that F-B has kindly contributed regarding these tags. I am I missing something that others can see?
I've put forward all the concerns with the reputable dealer I purchased from. I'm hoping that all will work out well in the end.
Wolfslair

**d'alquen** · 07-08-2010, 02:04 PM

Feel free to PM me with your email address.
d'alquen

**Jan** · 07-08-2010, 02:23 PM

I have been thinking about selling almost all of my collection to buy one or two real gems.. That is when I have enough knowledge and understanding of the items I would like to own and better contacts. That will take a few more years of dedicated collecting I think

Rgds Jan

**stuka f** · 07-08-2010, 02:47 PM

by Jan

I have been thinking about selling almost all of my collection to buy one or two real gems.. That is when I have enough knowledge and understanding of the items I would like to own and better contacts. That will take a few more years of dedicated collecting I think

Rgds Jan

A very wise descision that goes for me too!
cheers
|<ris

**Frog** · 07-08-2010, 08:39 PM

Well, live and learn. I am convinced by d'alquen's analysis; as an amateur, I would surely have been fooled by this cap (the original listing).

**BenVK** · 07-08-2010, 11:04 PM

I hate to see this happen.

Granted, there are some questions about the cap's authenticity. Fair enough.

If this is a totaly fake cap, then someone went to a hell of a lot of trouble sourcing an orignal wasserstruck lining with runes and also the correct orange/brown cheese cloth side lining panels as well. Not to mention, a correct leather CW style sweatband and then installed the lot into an authentic looking cap and so experterly done only to mess up and put in a false RZM tag?

Anything is possible of course. I'm not trying to say otherwise but please don't dismiss a seemingly authentic cap on the basis that the last thing that would have ever been stitched into a cap, i.e. any tags, labels etc are the elements to which to judge authenticity of the whole garment.

To study these things from the outside looking in is one element. When you look from the inside to the outside, you then get a true understanding of the craft involved in the making. It's only then you can start to understand and recognise the signatures, and there are many, each particular and unique to each maker or more often than not, quite generic and mediocre. They all tell a story.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 07-09-2010, 01:10 AM

by BenVK

I hate to see this happen.

Granted, there are some questions about the cap's authenticity. Fair enough.

If this is a totaly fake cap, then someone went to a hell of a lot of trouble sourcing an orignal wasserstruck lining with runes and also the correct orange/brown cheese cloth side lining panels as well. Not to mention, a correct leather CW style sweatband and then installed the lot into an authentic looking cap and so experterly done only to mess up and put in a false RZM tag?

Anything is possible of course. I'm not trying to say otherwise but please don't dismiss a seemingly authentic cap on the basis that the last thing that would have ever been stitched into a cap, i.e. any tags, labels etc are the elements to which to judge authenticity of the whole garment.

To study these things from the outside looking in is one element. When you look from the inside to the outside, you then get a true understanding of the craft involved in the making. It's only then you can start to understand and recognise the signatures, and there are many, each particular and unique to each maker or more often than not, quite generic and mediocre. They all tell a story.

You may be right, to be sure, and I esteem your judicious view of things. The tag is not authentic, I believe. This fact notwithstanding, maybe someone added a fake tag to an authentic cap, because the original tag went the way of the buffalo. My generalization arises from the sightings of many otherwise mint caps with funny tags that are about 96.3% correct (the tags. that is). I feel badly dispatching a judgment across the aether to a person in Oceania from the no. hemisphere without actually examining the piece itself. Colleague Derek, however, is a keen expert of these things, whose credentials are world renowned. I share your unease about these things and recognize your skill in recognition and the craft of these objects.