Allgemeine SS em cap opinions

[texasuberalles]

[QUOTE=We also want this site to remain free of cyber bullies, which became the norm on the lord of the flies site, where the game has been to build one's self up while knocking everyone else down in a very Hobbesian cosmos. We also want people to feel the freedom to share their material, without the barrage of sadness as a result.
The cyber culture of the lynch mob is a repugnant thing.[/QUOTE]

Well said F-B.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Well said F-B.

Thank you most kindly. I am very happy to see you here.

I have many qualms about how all of this works nowadays, in fact.

[Tricot]

There appears to a new class of fakes coming to market. It is a very easy thing to track the chain of custody back to the source, just like any narcotics investigations.

It could be fun to acquire one of this abominations and disassemble it, destructive but rewarding research. I imagine a single individual is creating these, they would not be difficult to track down by a even a mildly experienced investigator.

I predict incredible legal jeopardy for the faking rings. The perfect storm of right victim, right jurisdiction and right prosecutor will bring a lot daylight to the hobby.



I can't wait!

[Friedrich-Berthold]

There appears to a new class of fakes coming to market. It is a very easy thing to track the chain of custody back to the source, just like any narcotics investigations.

It could be fun to acquire one of this abominations and disassemble it, destructive but rewarding research. I imagine a single individual is creating these, they would not be difficult to track down by a even a mildly experienced investigator.

I predict incredible legal jeopardy for the faking rings. The perfect storm of right victim, right jurisdiction and right prosecutor will bring a lot daylight to the hobby.



I can't wait!

While I admire your optimism as concerns the triumph of justice over the makers of fake caps and such, I think you might wait in vain. The fakery of Nazi material began even before 30 January 1933 and as of July 2010 shows great vitality in a world suffocating in fakes and frauds of all kinds. I cannot easily imagine with the diminished capacity of the state (i.e. government) in the face of all the challenges it faces (oil spills, terrorism, budget collapse, disorder on a generalized scale) that one gives much of a hoot about our likes and the struggle with the fake RZM tags. I also think that in Europe, at least, the fakery of this stuff is also tied to criminal circles with very nasty habits, with whom I would not want to cross paths in the manner of Harry Lime or Lyme or however it is spelled.

I recall with amusement the publication in 1969 of a work of revelation about all of this by an author. Such a book was but a drop upon the hot rock, as the Germans say. The state of fakes in 1969 seems more than quaint by today's standards. Those who did the faking were colorful, les marginaux, some of whom I actually met and knew and were so peculiar that no one much cared then surely. The otherwise law enforcement officer Lumsden has also put his pen to this issue with good effect, but the push and pull, that is, the challenge and response are unceasing.

Lindsay Lohan's lacquered finger nails are surely of greater interest to the common weal than is the fake water proof lining in the cap of an apprentice mass murderer. Moreover, the gradations of fakes and frauds represents another issue: there is the wholly fake cap, and then there are the lesser offenses of the restored, modified, fiddled with et cetera that beggar description or interpretation by outsiders and the administration of justice.

Are you aware of some great Elliot Ness or Thomas Dewey figure in the world of antiques, graphic arts, or even Pez containers or Jim Beam bottles who has ever made a name for themselves in the cleansing of any associated field?

[stonemint]

I will say that the "Schlientz" piece that started this thread is much more advanced than this "Clemens Wagner":

[Friedrich-Berthold]

I saw this piece on the lord of the flies site, and I think it has been around for a number of years. Why anyone takes such a thing seriously is a mystery to me, surely, especially since the cap cover is so unlike the cap covers found on authentic summer caps from the III. Reich. It is sad that someone did cut apart an authentic black cap and do this, but granted the fetish of white caps and uniforms in the internet, as well as the field cap (what you call a ..."crusher...") how can one not serve the market?

One dealer does have a novel white open collared SS uniform for sale, though, at a very low price.

All of this makes me ever less interested in this material, which is rapidly losing its former allure.

The controversial site connected with some of these caps does seem to have many early, and what to me at least seem to be authentic NSDAP peaked caps of the first hour. Someone should do a photo essay on them rather than this endless drivel and cr@p with fakes.

[BenVK]

Unfortunately any attempt to discuss that cap and just the cap alone on the other site is impossible. As is any cap that is associated with a few certain individuals and the people in opposite clans. Shame really, some of the rarer caps on the dealers site in question deserve closer inspection and a chance to speak for themselves but that wll never happen, well, not anytime in the future that I can see.

Anyway, I do think it is relevant to post the white top cap here. Obviously a lot of effort went into it's creation but it falls short on so many levels. The black cap in this thread falls short on the tag obviously but in comparison with the white top, well, judge the differences for yourselves.

However, as much as I want to say, this is a good black cap, the comfort level of everyone is different and it's a very personnal decision as to whether any cap should stay or be sent back. Black NCO caps with all the bells and whistles though, are really not that rare or hard to find. It's probably wise to return any such cap that has any doubt, no matter how slight. Another will be along shortly without a doubt.

I'm not sure if this makes sense to anyone else but to me but I think these caps have become a kind of currency in the world of TR collecting. In other words, there is value assigned to them that doesn't vary that much no matter what. Almost like they are just a series of elements that are just checked off on a list, RZM tag, tick! RZM stencil on peak, tick! SS runes, tick! VA stencil prehaps? tick! Oh, it's named as well, tick! add another $500.

So, to buy this currency wisely, better to get one that ticks all the boxes without any question or doubt. The problem with that is that being a kind of currency, everyone knows the value so you will rarely pick up a bargain.

My heart says that the cap in question is more than likely a good one but my head is saying, choose another because of the doubts expressed here and they are doubts from very experienced collectors like FB and Derek.

[stonemint]

I agree, there are some very rare (and original) pieces of headgear on that site. Its just unfortunate that some (very) bad apples get thrown into the mix, which only tend to taint the entire inventory.

The "Chicago Cabal" want to stake their reputations on defending the indefensible, even after having been outed many times before.
Unfortunately, this trend will continue to repeat itself. At least here the discussions remain much more civilized, respectful, and insightful--lets see that it remains such.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

My misgivings above reflect the imperfections of an examination that unfolds solely via electric pictures. Moreover, I am sure that Mr. Ben and Mr. Chris share with me and others here the steadfast desire to keep this site as valuable a place as you all have made it via the rigorous and complete adherence to high standards. The personal vendettas, sawing of hobby horses, gouging out of cyber eye balls, and conspiracy theory Walpurgisnacht experiences of other sites have no place here at all. You should also see the plain fact that the die off of activity on the other site has a direct effect, too, on the value of your investment in your collections. That is, if the lords of the flies take over as in the case of failed states and such places as Afghanistan, Somalia, and you know where, then none of us will live safely nor will we realize what we might in our investment, though I did not make collect in order to invest. We need to attract new collectors via the high road, establish our bona fides through knowledge, collegial behavior and service of the truth as much as possible. Adrian and Dimas have made this possible for us. Gentlemen and gentlewomen can agree to disagree, but the seeping in of the poison into this place as befouls other sites we should all resist fully.

The knowledge on this site (the result of some valuable team work) draws curious minds from across the globe. Some of us have worked very hard to achieve this result. Nor is there any honor in the 21st century celebration of sophomoric behavior, ignorance and jealousy along with very bad written style (the rules of the road of these websites) as something other than what it truly is: despicable. In my life with real, actual German soldiers (not just pawing at their old clothes), I learned that one had always to set an example. We have done this here, more or less, for a couple of years and let us redouble our efforts.
Those who find such standards unacceptable or somehow contrary to their character and twisted desire for celebrity through cyber lynchings can go elsewhere.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Unfortunately any attempt to discuss that cap and just the cap alone on the other site is impossible.

Ben - I don't agree . . . I think you have done well so far, and there is much room to continue - don't give up. You may not believe, but there are many around that still follow the genuine objectivity we all look forward to, and set there sights far past much of the pettiness we all find so abhorid. And if you truly do not feel it is possible to continue there, why not begin so here? This is certainly a good place to do so, don't you agree?

I am still attempting over there myself, and I for one would like to see more civil discussion about the cap . . . and you, FB, and many others would do well on this site I think. So what do you say?