Allgemeine SS uniforms with 2 shoulder boards?

[HPL2008]

Also, many thanks as always to d'alquen for providing us with period documentation.

For the benefit of the non-German speaking members, here's a translation of the document in post # 47:

"The Head of the SS-Hauptamt
IA/O File ref.: B 44 a / 15th Sept. 38


Berlin, 7th March 1939

re: Grey work uniform of the Allgemeine SS

Distribution list IV a


In principle, the Reichsführer-SS has authorized the grey uniform (earth grey or field grey) to be worn as a work uniform by the Allgemeine SS so as to protect the black service uniform; however, this may be done only according to the following rules:

The grey uniform may be worn:

1. On drill duty by whole formations with the units, the staff companies, the full-time bands, the classes and training courses (SS-Führerschule Dachau, NCO courses etc.) as well as on technical duty by the engineer- and signals units.

2. By the drivers of service vehicles in the technical service or when driving trucks. The drivers of passenger cars wear the black uniform.

3. By the members of the SS-Hauptreitschule Riem, the SS-Übungslager Dachau, the SS-Remonteanstalt Hamburg, the SS-Kraftfahrschule Berne and the economic enterprises of the SS while within their facilities.

4. For riding duty and other sports duty of the staffs.

5. For office service, the grey tunic (drill or cloth) only, together with the black boot-cut trousers or long trousers, unless wear of the white tunic is ordered. On the way to duty and when leaving the office building, the black tunic is to be worn under all circumstances.

The grey uniform is forbidden:

1. As a walking-out uniform.
2. When visiting restaurants and other public buildings.
3. During sports events and riding tournaments.

One shoulder board is to be worn with the grey uniform.

The grey clothing will be supplied by the Verwaltungsamt-SS against payment only. Supply on loan or free of charge is not possible.

The Head of the SS-Hauptamt

[signed: Heißmeyer]

SS-Obergruppenführer"

I had chosen not to translate the designations of the SS agencies and schools within the body of the text. For additional clarity, they are:

SS-Hauptamt = SS Main Office
Verwaltungsamt-SS = SS Administration Office
SS-Führerschule Dachau = SS Officer School Dachau
SS-Hauptreitschule Riem = SS Main Riding School Riem (Munich)
SS-Übungslager Dachau = SS Training Camp Dachau
SS-Remonteanstalt Hamburg = SS Remount Facility Hamburg
SS-Kraftfahrschule Berne = SS Motor Transport School Berne

[jimt]

As a interesting point perhaps 40 years ago Chuck Scaglione turned up a grouping of a SS officer named "Winter " it was noted he was the husband of one of Hitlers cooks , the grouping consisted of the following,
1. Black officers overcoat, rank of Major, cufftitle "SS-Hauptamt" with two allgemeine shoulderboards
2. black officers visor cap with deluxe yellow rzm interior.
3. SS officers sword & world war I sword.
This grouping was in a few different collectors hands until finally ending up with
John Pepara , before he died he had the one shoulderboard removed so the grouping was more marketable (his opinion) anyway this is another instance of the double boards in wear, I wish I would have photographed this grouping when Chuck pulled it out of a pawn shop in New York state .
I often wondered if this was just a Tailors mistake or had some other meaning ?

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Also, many thanks as always to d'alquen for providing us with period documentation.

For the benefit of the non-German speaking members, here's a translation of the document in post # 47:

"The Head of the SS-Hauptamt
IA/O File ref.: B 44 a / 15th Sept. 38


Berlin, 7th March 1939

re: Grey work uniform of the Allgemeine SS

Distribution list IV a


In principle, the Reichsführer-SS has authorized the grey uniform (earth grey or field grey) to be worn as a work uniform by the Allgemeine SS so as to protect the black service uniform; however, this may be done only according to the following rules:

The grey uniform may be worn:

1. On drill duty by whole formations with the units, the staff companies, the full-time bands, the classes and training courses (SS-Führerschule Dachau, NCO courses etc.) as well as on technical duty by the engineer- and signals units.

2. By the drivers of service vehicles in the technical service or when driving trucks. The drivers of passenger cars wear the black uniform.

3. By the members of the SS-Hauptreitschule Riem, the SS-Übungslager Dachau, the SS-Remonteanstalt Hamburg, the SS-Kraftfahrschule Berne and the economic enterprises of the SS while within their facilities.

4. For riding duty and other sports duty of the staffs.

5. For office service, the grey tunic (drill or cloth) only, together with the black boot-cut trousers or long trousers, unless wear of the white tunic is ordered. On the way to duty and when leaving the office building, the black tunic is to be worn under all circumstances.

The grey uniform is forbidden:

1. As a walking-out uniform.
2. When visiting restaurants and other public buildings.
3. During sports events and riding tournaments.

One shoulder board is to be worn with the grey uniform.

The grey clothing will be supplied by the Verwaltungsamt-SS against payment only. Supply on loan or free of charge is not possible.

The Head of the SS-Hauptamt

[signed: Heißmeyer]

SS-Obergruppenführer"

I had chosen not to translate the designations of the SS agencies and schools within the body of the text. For additional clarity, they are:

SS-Hauptamt = SS Main Office
Verwaltungsamt-SS = SS Administration Office
SS-Führerschule Dachau = SS Officer School Dachau
SS-Hauptreitschule Riem = SS Main Riding School Riem (Munich)
SS-Übungslager Dachau = SS Training Camp Dachau
SS-Remonteanstalt Hamburg = SS Remount Facility Hamburg
SS-Kraftfahrschule Berne = SS Motor Transport School Berne

Thank you, Andreas, for your very fine role here.

[Wilhelm Saris]

The use of two shoulder-straps by Reiter-SS was in no way consequently done.

In volume 4 for "Headgear of Hitler's Germany" in the chapter about the SS
I had included two photographs from my good friend David Delich. With both
photos of Reiter-SS from a different area or branch no second shoulder-strap
was worn. Photos are included here:



The first is from the Nord-district; the second from the SS-Hauptreitschule München.
It is obvious no two shoulder-straps or boards are worn here!!

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The use of two shoulder-straps by Reiter-SS was in no way consequently done.

In volume 4 for "Headgear of Hitler's Germany" in the chapter about the SS
I had included two photographs from my good friend David Delich. With both
photos of Reiter-SS from a different area or branch no second shoulder-strap
was worn. Photos are included here:



The first is from the Nord-district; the second from the SS-Hauptreitschule München.
It is obvious no two shoulder-straps or boards are worn here!!

And one has the Raute and one does not...... as in uniformity of uniforms.

[d'alquen]

Although strictly speaking not germane to the discussion of use double shoulder boards by early SS units I thought I would add this document I just came across as it does indicates how closely Himmler monitored these uniform details. This December, 1939 order from him is designed to prevent the wearing of Waffen-SS shoulderboards by those who were not entitled to them.

[jHAM]

Thanks again for these wonderful primary sources. A real delight and pleasure. We owe Messrs. Saris and d'Alquen great thanks and respect!

I second that and let me add thanks to HPL2008 and F-B for their first rate work.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Although strictly speaking not germane to the discussion of use double shoulder boards by early SS units I thought I would add this document I just came across as it does indicates how closely Himmler monitored these uniform details. This December, 1939 order from him is designed to prevent the wearing of Waffen-SS shoulderboards by those who were not entitled to them.

Wonderful material, thanks.

[HPL2008]

This December, 1939 order from him is designed to prevent the wearing of Waffen-SS shoulderboards by those who were not entitled to them.

Here's what it says:

"The Reichsführer-SS
Journal no. 35/255/39
RF/Pt.


Berlin, 13th Dec. 1939


Via the SS Main Office for
distribution to all Main Offices.


I refer to my order about the institution of the reserve officers of the Waffen-SS and ask the heads of all Main Offices to ensure with all severity that no SS officer subordinate to them wears the shoulder boards of the Waffen-SS on his service dress unless entitled to do so. So entitled are:

1.) the SS officers of the Waffen-SS,
2.) the reserve officers of the Waffen-SS,
3.) those offficers of the Security Police- and SD Main Office who have been personally deployed for active service (I request consultation by the head of the SD Main Office on the matter of the future determination of the circle of personnel in question),
4.) other SS officers for whom the head of their Main Office has submitted an application to the SS Personnel Main Office and for whom my personal approval has been given.

The Reichsführer-SS:

[signed: H. Himmler]"

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Bravo.

The item that gave rise to this thread has never appeared.

This kind of thing is so common.

What is uncommon is the intelligence and learning, as well as didactic skill of our best members.

Let their example be a guide to other seekers of knowledge of the imperative to engage the primary sources in their glory.

Moreover, many of the popular secondary works, especially in English, are poorly edited and, from a professional standpoint, are misleading especially to novice collectors.