Another Fake Item per the moderators

**sam1chlt** · 07-07-2015, 11:55 PM

This was bought from a very well known collector? Please explain why its fake?

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-07-2015 11:55 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**all1knew** · 07-08-2015, 12:16 AM

to me the oxidation, piping/cord, buckram, and tag look correct. This looks to be of similar quality to these with a "C" tag that I found in my book. Would love to learn what's wrong with the above raute because I am not seeing it.

William Kramer

**daveward** · 07-08-2015, 03:27 AM

I am withholding any speculation on this sleeve diamond because this is not an item about which I am very knowledgeable. Instead, I will provide some photos of this type of diamond apparently made by the same manufacturer (#167), and point out some interesting characteristics I've noticed on them.

Here is one being offered by Oakleaf Militaria. Its front side features a smooth black cloth, and the stitching used to attach the piping is black. The RZM tag's text is centered, and there is no black line before the letters "No." The sequence number on this diamond shows it to be produced later than the one in question (the sequence letter, however, is "B"):

Here's one shown by Rene Chavez (of Axis Military and Foreign Volunteer Legion Awards and Postal History). This one is very similar to the one in question -- it has the "loose"-looking cloth on the front, and the sequence number on the RZM tag is only 55 off (the sequence letter, however, is "C"). Like the one in question, the RZM tag is off-center, and features a distinct black line in front of the letters "No":

Here's one reportedly displayed by Robin Lumsden. This one, too, has a sequence number that is very close to the one in question, and it also uses lighter-colored stitching to attach the piping. Again, the RZM tag seems off-center (with the same "C" sequence letter), and there is a distinct black line in front of the letters "No":

**Gwar** · 07-08-2015, 03:37 AM

Something is "Hinkey" here regarding all of the supposed "Fakes" There are allways two sides of a story and I for one would like to have an answer regarding this ( These ) matters. I have seen several threads where fellow members deem an item fake only to be re-deemed authentic by others... I am guilty of this as well..
Just does "Merely" saying " Fake " suffice as "Gospel" ??? Let us see the reasoning and perhaps learn or forever be in the dark regarding such relics...G

**sam1chlt** · 07-08-2015, 03:41 AM

by Gwar

Something is "Hinkey" here regarding all of the supposed "Fakes" There are allways two sides of a story and I for one would like to have an answer regarding this ( These ) matters. I have seen several threads where fellow members deem an item fake only to be re-deemed authentic by others... I am guilty of this as well..
Just does "Merely" saying " Fake " suffice as "Gospel" ??? Let us see the reasoning and perhaps learn or forever be in the dark regarding such relics...G

Thank you Sir!

**daveward** · 07-08-2015, 03:48 AM

I agree, Gwar. I'd love to learn more about these issues (and this particular type of item, in general). I hope the photos I have displayed will help us to study these diamonds a little better. I have seen other diamonds of this type with "B" and "D" RZM tags, which is interesting to me (and I should note that I am not sure which of these are authentic). It is curious that so many of the diamonds I found during a quick search were supposedly made by this same manufacturer, and so close with regard to the sequence number shown on the RZM tag...

**sam1chlt** · 07-08-2015, 03:51 AM

I was told this was a moderator decision and I had to remove all 6 items as they were reproductions without reason. I was given reason for 1 item. I fear that this has become less about learning and more about politics as with many SS items.

**Gwar** · 07-08-2015, 03:54 AM

by daveward

I agree, Gwar. I'd love to learn more about these issues (and this particular type of item, in general). I hope the photos I have displayed will help us to study these diamonds a little better. I have seen other diamonds of this type with "B" and "D" RZM tags, which is interesting to me (and I should note that I am not sure which of these are authentic). It is curious that so many of the diamonds I found during a quick search were supposedly made by this same manufacturer, and so close with regard to the sequence number shown on the RZM tag...

A very good observation and by a guy who's opinion I trust as well ...G

**Gwar** · 07-08-2015, 03:55 AM

Hope this can be resolved in the WRF fashion.... G

**daveward** · 07-08-2015, 03:59 AM

by sam1chlt

I was told this was a moderator decision and I had to remove all 6 items as they were reproductions without reason. I was given reason for 1 item. I fear that this has become less about learning and more about politics as with many SS items.

Well, I think we should all try to remain calm and take the time to discuss this properly. The moderators of this forum feel a responsibility to make sure that fakes/reproductions are not sold on the site. It is likely that someone suggested that these items might be inauthentic, so the moderator(s) did their job in asking you to take them down. It should also be noted that you complied, which was the right thing to do, and speaks to your character. In the meantime, this is the perfect opportunity for us to study the items and try to learn more about them. If they are then deemed authentic, I am quite certain that the moderators would be happy to let you re-list them. My experience here has shown me that the moderators are considerate and understanding people. I understand that it might seem frustrating from your perspective, but I'm fairly confident that no one was trying to wrong you in any way.