black SS officer's cap

**BenVK** · 08-06-2010, 10:21 PM

by Friedrich-Berthold

e.) Himmler forbade leather peaks in 1938 likely for reasons of cost and thrift as well as the raw materials issue whereby natural materials needed for the war effort had priority, that is, needed for the 4 year plan and the renewed drive towards Ersatzmaterial.

Just learn't something new to me, thanks FB!

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 08-06-2010 10:21 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 08-06-2010, 10:45 PM

by BenVK

Just learn't something new to me, thanks FB!

This issue is in Mollo's book and the copy of the order for same has been posted by Mr. Derek and by myself several times.

**BenVK** · 08-07-2010, 09:28 PM

I'm an idiot, sorry!

Any chance of a link to the copy of the order?

**d'alquen** · 08-08-2010, 04:05 AM

No problem , here is the instruction from the SS Befehls-Blatt of June 1938. it appears from the exasperated tone that the original order was from an earlier date but I can't recall where that order was from.
d'alquen

**jimt** · 08-08-2010, 06:32 PM

by d'alquen

No problem , here is the instruction from the SS Befehls-Blatt of June 1938. it appears from the exasperated tone that the original order was from an earlier date but I can't recall where that order was from.
d'alquen

Well . I am again confused? are you saying that this hat with a leather bild was not made after 1938 ? or here is another order for the sake of what ? or what is the point ? just read thru 3 pages and I am not sure what I am trying to learn ? or the picture of the hat /leather visor in field grey that Benvk shows is not correct ?
jimtoncar

**BenVK** · 08-09-2010, 10:10 PM

Hi Jim, hopefully the point of the discussion is education?

Discussing German caps and their design, the background behind the designs and their development (or not) during the Third Reich?

I never knew that Himmler forbade leather peaks in 1938. That's quite astonishing to me because Himmler himself wore leather peaked caps in all the photos that I can find right through out the period. Despite his pig sh!t background, he had remarkably good fashion taste don't you think? Well, maybe not the glasses.

Should it be astonishing though that he wrote such a decloration?? Of course not. The rules he decreed were numerous and more often than not not even followed by himself (who would have pointed it out anyway?), let alone anyone else.
I guess if there were a point to this thread, it would hopefully be that collectors who read this and have in the past looked upon the TR and the SS especially as a strickly adhered to establishment, would maybe think twice? Colour piped cap for example only being worn for a limited time? no no no

But you know, the real reason for me posting is that I just like showing photos of these beautifully designed and made caps.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 08-19-2010, 08:50 PM

I began this thread to illustrate certain, what I believe to be authentic caps, on offer. The issue of the leather peak on SS caps is surely unremarkable, since Mollo analyzed this issue decades ago. That the orders and reality might clash is hardly a theme of surprise as well, especially for those of us with a military background. My other posts have endeavored to correct collector lore and legend as to the relationship between written orders and the reaction of the rank and file to commands from above. I have invested a huge effort in this connection, especially with many, many citations of original sources to the effect that frequently orders gained no or little traction.

The on line learning experience is a checkered thing at best, especially if some approach the enterprise with less patience than the task demands. Thanks to colleague Derek for the addition of the order against leather peaks. One has to read the totality of the SS Befehlsblaetter to gain a sense of the organization. The irritated and pissy tone of many of these dispatches reveals alot about the spirit of the place, that's for sure. Surely this command climate originated from the chef de cabinet of the RFSS and his lieutenants.

I just found that one of my favorite hat stores in Germany, Hut Weber in Bonn/Rhein is still going strong and I bought a cap there...so there....a welcome change to the misery of the 21st century.

Thanks Ben for your nice posts here.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 08-19-2010, 08:53 PM

This is something like what I just bought, but without any RZM tag... Notice cloth peak.

**Frog** · 08-19-2010, 09:07 PM

Sorry - I can't keep up with you youngsters. What exactly are we talking about on this thread?

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 08-19-2010, 09:11 PM

by Frog

Sorry - I can't keep up with you youngsters. What exactly are we talking about on this thread?

Dear Bruce, I began this thread with illustrations of authentic caps for sale early this month. No one will be surprised to learn that threads take on a life of their own, as has this one, and it has wandered into other areas. Those who pose new questions are solid people and free to pose questions that interest them. One thing leads to another often times. Such is hardly remarkable, is it?

Servus, FB