FB, please thank David Delich for all of us here. This is an amazing piece that just illustrates how truly significant his collection is. Every day on this forum is an education and I greatly appreciate your efforts and the generous support from members and, especially noteworthy, Mr. Delich.
I believe this is a picture from the 1980's or sometime of the same tunic as the one which started this thread. As always, it's a pleasure to view Mr. Delich's collection....thank you.
I find myself wondering if there are any known copies of the regulation authorizing spiess personnel to wear these chevrons on the lower-right sleeve still in existence? I've had the above image for quite sometime, but admittedly never knew what the extra chevron represented. Guess I thought it was just an anomaly....it's indeed nice to learn so many new things here, especially with actual photographic evidence and/or period documentation as is the case here once again.
Last edited by youthcollector1; 01-31-2016 at 12:35 AM.
The picture is, in fact, from 1 9 6 8.
I am going to hate myself for this, but I have to ask why the original post of this tunic has a Sturmscharfuhrer rank tab, whilst the last photo, from 1968 has the rank of Oberscharfuhrer ?
I had also noted that the runic tab, shows the runes with the smaller No1 that I would have associated with the "Politische Bereitschaft" and not the Deutschland Standarte.
As far as I could determine the rank of Sturmscharfuher was not an Allgemeine SS rank but was adopted later.
Please note however that I am still a fan of this post as the information contained therein is still significant but it does (for me) highlight how much of collecting SS militaria is both blessing and an affliction at the same time.
I can attest that I took the picture (post #12) my self in 1968 in Dallas. Texas. At that time it was in the collection of Ray Wood. We were all puzzled by the lower chevron.by Friedrich-Berthold
Joe Bourn
Last edited by texasuberalles; 01-31-2016 at 03:09 AM.
"As far as I could determine the rank of Sturmscharfuher was not an Allgemeine SS rank but was adopted later.
Please note however that I am still a fan of this post as the information contained therein is still significant but it does (for me) highlight how much of collecting SS militaria is both blessing and an affliction at the same time. "
As pertains to the statement above, please see Mollo on pp. 47-8 of Vol. III in the edition of 1991.
and Mollo, pp. 20 ff. of Vol. I where these badges are interpreted, and as having applied to the Gesamt SS in 1938/9.
I see therein plainly the ranks of Stabscharfuehrer as well as Sturmscharfuerher listed for the SSVT.
The SSVT emerged from the Politische Bereitschaften, did they not ca. 1934?
Also, what do you mean: "...was not an Allgemeine SS rank, but was adopted later..."
I included an image of an Allgemeine SS signals unit with this chevron and also it is or is not present on what is an SSVT tunic,
which may have originally been an SSPB tunic when it was first tailored. The SSPB were part of the Allgem. SS, and the SSVT emerged from them,
and more than you might warrant, until the deployment of the SSVT in wartime, retained a significant link to the SS command structure, to include the
Allgemeine SS.
Dienststellung is distinguished form a Dienstgrad, I think you will grant me, especially if you have had military experience.
Finally, the image from 1968 varies with the rank badge from today. I assume the badge was changed at some point in those nearly fifty years.
Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 01-31-2016 at 05:06 AM.
Mr. Joe in Texas is also aware of a tunic that he found from a Verwaltungsfuehrer for the SS Oberbschnitt Fulda Werra which later appeared in the Hayes book.
When the item first appeared, it had a Waffen SS unit collar patch on it, which later became an Allgemeine SS unit collar patch for the SS Oberabschnitt.
When? How? By Whom?
Whoever did so, returned the item to its proper and correct posture at some point.
Maybe one of you has the relevant document from October 1934 (Mollo) whereby this Stabscharfuehrer badge was introduced and or relevant documents from the SSPB
and SSVT as concerns this insignia and ranks in the SSVT.
And the SS enlisted and NCO ranks underwent an expansion, did they not, in the course of time from 1932 until 1939...?
That is, the number of ranks in their variety expanded just as the SS organization grew and took on diversified, specialized roles and missions.
Why hate yourself for it...it's a very fair question, no? I surely would like to ask whoever did it what the point of doing it was. Just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Besides, hiding from the truth does nothing to help the collecting community, which needs all the help they can get in attempting to determine when insignia was applied on these things.
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