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Fake volunteer shields? Among other items

Article about: I purchased this lot at auction several months ago for \\$110. Posted on WAF and got all A's across the board. I've stumbled upon a post on another forum from 2019 where a dealer, don't know h

  1. #1

    Default Fake volunteer shields? Among other items

    I purchased this lot at auction several months ago for $110. Posted on WAF and got all A's across the board. I've stumbled upon a post on another forum from 2019 where a dealer, don't know his site but is referred to as Walter is purported to have found crate(s) of Croatian insignia, unissued. The thread continues on to to identify the Algerian as fake as well. Thread implies he re-sold or disseminated many of these "found" items to other dealers. Thread lists links to these items for sale on multiple dealer sites, some with good reputations and large annual earnings and others with soiled reputations that are well know. Wittman's included - after seeing some of his photos holding flags in his "workshop" surrounded by shelves of spare dagger and other parts I don't think I'll ever buy from him. Sounds like he's kind of shady anyway. Hobby is now flooded with these fake shields. Moving on - I now believe at least the two volunteer shields to be fake and am unsure of the Edelweiss and the BeVo Panzer skull, but thinking they are fake at this point as well. None of the item fluoresce, but we know that is not a final say on authenticity. Thoughts comments appreciated.Fake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other items

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    TWS
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    "Walter" is probably Walter Kanzler. He is the dealer with the magical ability to find boxes and crates of long-forgotten items in barns in Bavaria - be it DDR, err, I mean Wehrmacht, toilet paper or ridiculous blown glass Christmas tree ornaments made by the finest craftsmen in Mumbai, err, I mean Lauscha. If you have any items from his magical hoard finds you should drop them and immediately wash you hands.
    Todd
    Former U.S. Army Tanker.
    "Best job I ever had."

  4. #3

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    Quote by TWS View Post
    "Walter" is probably Walter Kanzler. He is the dealer with the magical ability to find boxes and crates of long-forgotten items in barns in Bavaria - be it DDR, err, I mean Wehrmacht, toilet paper or ridiculous blown glass Christmas tree ornaments made by the finest craftsmen in Mumbai, err, I mean Lauscha. If you have any items from his magical hoard finds you should drop them and immediately wash you hands.
    Thanks for responding. These items came from Cannons Auctions in Virginia. When I got the package, the case and glass they were in (what they are pictured in) was really grimy. I imagine it'd been sitting awhile. This was one of several estate lots from a grouping of German items that were being sold by "type" i.e. Luftwaffe grouping, SS grouping, RLB grouping etc.

    That aside, what's your opinion on the Edelweiss and Panzer? A dealer who has several listings on their site for the two shields offered me $360 for the lot. But only if I include the Panzer trapezoid. So that makes me wonder about that one.

    The closest things I have found is the book Himmler's SS: Loyal to the Death's Head by Robin Lumsden and the book SS Hitler's Foreign Divisions: Foreign Volunteers in the Waffen-SS 1940–45 by Chris Bishop. No mention of anything Albanian besides that one snippet.Fake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other items
    Last edited by akriener; 04-05-2020 at 09:33 PM.

  5. #4
    TWS
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    I'm not the right member to authenticate those because I do not collect SS. Perhaps a member who does will chime in. I can say that based on the reverse, I do not like the Croatian shield. The back of the Edelweiss shows different technique than I would trust, but I am not familiar with all variants.
    Todd
    Former U.S. Army Tanker.
    "Best job I ever had."

  6. #5

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    I would agree with Todd it is probably Walter Kanzler, the guy is the new Charlie Snyder. He Sells the most heinous fakes and just makes garbage up on the fly about items, hence why at the SOS almost no one stops at his table.

    Chris Bishop's books is pretty terrible, another quick print where he does not do much work on the subject and just takes already poor writing and reprints it.

    What you have are an 1st Waffen-SS Div. "Skanderbeg" shield, the Albanian one which looks to be ok, a typical Dachau one. The Croatian Volunteer Sleeve Shield Type II does not look good, you should usually be able to see the red cross stitching of the boxes on the back. The cuff-tile is not SS, and is mistake by many auction houses. It is a Nationalsozialistischer Reichskriegerbund locality cuff-tile.

    I will defer the Edelweiss and panzer to other members but my advice would be to stay away from this auction house.

    Morris

  7. #6

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    Quote by KMMorris View Post
    I would agree with Todd it is probably Walter Kanzler, the guy is the new Charlie Snyder. He Sells the most heinous fakes and just makes garbage up on the fly about items, hence why at the SOS almost no one stops at his table.

    Chris Bishop's books is pretty terrible, another quick print where he does not do much work on the subject and just takes already poor writing and reprints it.

    What you have are an 1st Waffen-SS Div. "Skanderbeg" shield, the Albanian one which looks to be ok, a typical Dachau one. The Croatian Volunteer Sleeve Shield Type II does not look good, you should usually be able to see the red cross stitching of the boxes on the back. The cuff-tile is not SS, and is mistake by many auction houses. It is a Nationalsozialistischer Reichskriegerbund locality cuff-tile.

    I will defer the Edelweiss and panzer to other members but my advice would be to stay away from this auction house.

    Morris
    Thanks for your thoughts on this. Yeah, I know the cuff title isn't SS, guess I should have addressed that haha. That's interesting you say that about the back, because over on WAF someone said "The Albanian shields typically have more white threads on reverse but that one looks ok" and had no detractors about the Croatian one. Of course they couldn't provide where they found that factoid.

  8. #7
    TWS
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    Quote by KMMorris View Post
    I would agree with Todd it is probably Walter Kanzler, the guy is the new Charlie Snyder. He Sells the most heinous fakes and just makes garbage up on the fly about items, hence why at the SOS almost no one stops at his table.

    The Croatian Volunteer Sleeve Shield Type II does not look good, you should usually be able to see the red cross stitching of the boxes on the back.

    Morris
    Good analogy. Kanzler is as full of hot air as Charlie Snyder was.

    On the Croatian shield, that is exactly what I was getting at when I said I don't like the way the reverse looks.
    Todd
    Former U.S. Army Tanker.
    "Best job I ever had."

  9. #8

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    Quote by akriener View Post
    Thanks for your thoughts on this. Yeah, I know the cuff title isn't SS, guess I should have addressed that haha. That's interesting you say that about the back, because over on WAF someone said "The Albanian shields typically have more white threads on reverse but that one looks ok" and had no detractors about the Croatian one. Of course they couldn't provide where they found that factoid.
    Comparing the WAF to the WRF is like apples to oranges, hence why i stopped posting there years ago. Most members here actually put in a vested interest and try to help and encourage people, on the WAF if your not part of the inner circle, good luck to you. Carlson may come along to help your other two bits of insignia.

  10. #9

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    Here's some individual close ups. They do have an "old" smell to them.
    Fake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other itemsFake volunteer shields? Among other items

  11. #10

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    everything I see here are one lookers originals

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