HJ and Polizei diamonds Dachau finds

[Zeller]

I thought it was a good idea to post here the question because if I don't remember wrong, a huge lot of such insignia was found but one forum member and collegue moderator. I never doubted these insignias, but I am curious about where the definition came from. I read often the HJ diamond was believed to be for "former HJ members in the SS".
I am not convinced by this because most of the SS were probably HJ members before and the HJ had its badges for that (and you see often SS members wearing HJ honour badges). I think that it might be more probably a patch worn for members attached or assigned to HJ units as instructors or for other assignments. What do you think?

[HPL2008]

I read often the HJ diamond was believed to be for "former HJ members in the SS".
I am not convinced by this because most of the SS were probably HJ members before and the HJ had its badges for that (and you see often SS members wearing HJ honour badges). I think that it might be more probably a patch worn for members attached or assigned to HJ units as instructors or for other assignments. What do you think?

I agree with that and for the same reasons.
Most, if not all, references identify that sleeve diamond as being for former HJ members, but so far I have neither seen documentation for this, so it might very well be just a case of one author copying the other. I have also yet to see any period photograph of this badge in wear.
Furthermore, with HJ service being (at least theoretically) compulsory and totally common, former membership in the HJ was nothing special and certainly nothing that would justify a special identifying insigne. It would be far more plausible if this was for SS personnel serving as instructors for the HJ or in some kind of SS/HJ liaison function.

[Woolgar]

Even if it was worn by SS instructors to the HJ I think it would be a more visible insignia in photos etc.

The jury is out on this patch for me

Nick

[HPL2008]

Even if it was worn by SS instructors to the HJ I think it would be a more visible insignia in photos etc.

Yes, but the number of persons qualified would be much, much smaller than if it simply denoted former HJ members, making photographs of the badge in wear automatically significantly rarer.

Of course, no matter what that sleeve diamond's actual meaning was, it is of course possible that it was officially introduced and manufactured, but never actually issued, especially if it was a late-war invention. Unless I am much mistaken, this was, for example, the case with the series of specialist sleeve diamonds for Fachführer.

[Zeller]

There are various examples of Dachau insignias never being issued or worn (for instance the italian SS shield and tab). The Dachau finds still divide collectors between believers and non believers, I personally believe that they are real.
That said, I am trying to imagine a logical purpose for these diamonds.

[Andrew]

hello gents,
i thought the diamond was for sport shirts? could it be something like a group leader for exersize? just a thought. unfortunatly this picture is black and white.
andrew

[HPL2008]

hello gents,
i thought the diamond was for sport shirts? could it be something like a group leader for exersize?

Sorry, but definitely not. The HJ sports shirt insigne was of a different design and construction, much larger and tri-colored. (red, white, black)

[Andrew]

i cant tell the size of the black diamond so i looked it up. the normaly seen red and white diamond were on sport shirts and on the jacket sleeves for a time. from what i can find about the black diamond, it was a sleeve insignia for the youth leader and is 3 1/4 inch tall compared to the red and white diamond that is about 3 3/4 inches tall.
andrew

[HPL2008]

i cant tell the size of the black diamond so i looked it up. the normaly seen red and white diamond were on sport shirts and on the jacket sleeves for a time. from what i can find about the black diamond, it was a sleeve insignia for the youth leader and is 3 1/4 inch tall compared to the red and white diamond that is about 3 3/4 inches tall.
andrew

I don't own one of the SS/HJ diamonds either, but The Collector's Guild website currently has one on sale; they describe it as being 75 mm tall, that would be ca. 2 9/10 inches:
The Collector's Guild

[sabineM61]

Thank you gentleman. I find this very interesting and glad that now I have some imfo. on this diamond to start with.