LSSAH slip on Infantry boards

**SS gentleman** · 10-08-2017, 07:23 PM

I got these several years ago. I think that they are alright. I want to be sure before listing them in the classifieds. Time to make room.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-08-2017 07:23 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**bsiwula1** · 10-08-2017, 11:33 PM

Hey SS I can t say to a certainty but at first glance I was skeptical, simply because of the erratic stitching; however compared to the ones in the Bando/Beaver book the stitching seems comparable. However I can see differences in the letter shapes especially the finishing ends/sweeps. I'm not going to say yay or nay on authenticity but I d like to hear what other opinions are. Kindest regards.

Brian

Images from Bando/Beaver SS artifacts and insignia books.

Of particular concern is the visual void in the stitching in lower left loop of the letter L, I had not noticed this any other supposed original examples.

LAH cypher shoulder boards!

**SS gentleman** · 10-09-2017, 04:05 AM

Brian, I that that too, but i have seen a few other like mine on another forums website. To me everything seem right as rain. I know an older a modern day embroider. She said that everything in her world today is computer driven for exact stitched items. She can do hundred of exactly the same. She said her machines 60 years ago was not as exacting in repetition sewing. It was close but not totally 100 percent exact. Just my humble opinion.

**bsiwula1** · 10-09-2017, 11:43 AM

Hey SSG I hear you brother and please don't think I'm trying to discredit you or your items. I'm not. With FB'S departure a hole was left here on the forum, and I'm not trying to fill the void but rather engage in discussion, and await others opinions; as consensus amongst us equals quality control. Therefore in response to the embroidery vs quality vs age vs production methods. I personally discount that, I am familiar with mordern embroidery machines as where I work we teach upholseterey and the department has a modern programmable machine. I ve often thought as you the same, back in the day they used older technology older production methods their items couldn't of been as well made. I call bubkis, reason being I was at Gettysburg about two years ago when they had on display Jefferson Davis's night coat I examined that thing and marveled at its quality I doubt any person alive would be capable of making such a piece today as it's quality all hand made was exquisite and it was a night coat. I also think of Ken burs WW2 documentary they have a GI on there who's name was Ray Leoupold, who came from Waterbury CT also called brass city at the time. It was a large factory town with skilled workers, he stated if something needed produced with a .0001 tolerance they could do it and if something needed produced requiring zero tolerance they could do that too. That was with a mill and lathe and measuring tools no CNC as today. Again you could be right they could be real but imo not on that basis alone. If you do have pictures of others similar examples deemed original please share them. I don't mean to be over critical and I believe to an extent we hold SS items to a higher standard concerning authenticity but with the prices involved it's justified in my mind. And allowing non typical pieces through without discussion is a dangerous game especially in regards to selling, even more so to here on the forum, where we all have a mutual common interest involved. Best regards.

Brian

**CBH** · 10-09-2017, 02:59 PM

sorry duplicate post

**CBH** · 10-09-2017, 03:02 PM

They appear to be fakes to me, weak embroidery not of the quality seen on originals.
They seem to be freshly cut out with felt fringe still hanging on the sides, also they are not centred.
Where did you get these, and where did you see similar examples, as they are Fake also.

**MM1985** · 10-09-2017, 08:48 PM

The thread starter pair is not original. I do not want to go in Detail but the key is the stitching.

When you compare original LAH Loops with this pair you will notice that most of them are well executed and some a Little bit sloppier but None of the loops I had seen where made in the way like this pair. They just do not pass.

**SS gentleman** · 10-11-2017, 01:34 AM

I appreciate all the opinions. I know that the photos are not the best possible over exposed slightly. I find it interesting that on another militaria web site. These boards and cypher's were given 5 positive as originals by 5 SS insignia experts on that site. I wanted to sell them on this site and it's easier to refer reference here. The black loose threads are common faults on un hemmed wool. The raised loose thread has nothing to do with the integrity of authentication process. In the photos that were posted from Bando/Beaver book. i find mine are almost exact. Just my thoughts.

If I, and the other 5 SS insignia experts are way off. Please show me where we are not seeing the mistakes on these cypher's. I want to learn.. I thought this site would help teach too. I an not any expert especially on LSSAH slip on cypher's. Always a student of military collecting

**bsiwula1** · 10-11-2017, 02:48 AM

Attachment 1120731

Hey SS, just as before I'm searching for reasons to authenticate your posted examples, not to disprove they are real. The most recent examples from my searching include slip cyphers from Oakleaf, and lux military antiques, also images from the Mollo volumes. Perhaps it is your pictures, but the black fabric has a discernable pattern I cannot see in yours. Also the field grey looks to be off in color. And still comparing yours to these examples I still see differences in embroidery and stitching. Again I do not purport to be an expert these are just further observations. Thanks, for posting again, if you have other examples authenticated that are comparable to yours please post them for discussion. I am the same as you just hoping to learn and build upon my knowledge. Kindest regards.

Brian

https://www.lux-military-antiques.co...waffen-ss-.htm

Comparitive images of tab material stitching and edge piping.

(second photo of your cypher different angle)

One last comparison again could be camera angles but the the top arms of the letter H usually set about the same height as the top of the letter A as though a straight line could connect the 3 on originals, your upper right arm in letter H seems low in comparison to the other originals posted.