SD uniform black before the war?

[Friedrich-Berthold]

This piece was sold in Germany, but I somewhat think it was made up from whole cloth. That is a hunch of mine, only. Where is it now?

Notice the lapels especially as well as all the seams.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

the white unifrom with a very large Ordensspange

[Alan M]

Hi FB, thanks for showing these images , fantastic to browse over , and i think the white version is wonderful , again thanks for your time and effort ,

cheers Al

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thanks and happy regalia to all.

[ESP]

Did officers wear the blank cuff title? sturmbannfuhrer and higher?
Have just seen the blank and the SD hauptamt cuff title.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Did officers wear the blank cuff title? sturmbannfuhrer and higher?
Have just seen the blank and the SD hauptamt cuff title.

Once more, see Mollo vol V or Angolia on this account. The Mollo books have the signal trait that they link the regalia to the organization in a chronological and thematic way. The Beaver books do not do this in a consistent way, which is sad granted how nice are the color plates. But the key resides in the organizational evolution which was swift and highly complicated, especially for someone unfamiliar with Germany in the early 20th century.

Generally, all ranks wore the blank cuff title, unless assigned to higher HQs as you so indicate.

Cf. also the Beaver books as well for actual examples of such uniforms.

Officer ranks were from Untersturmfuehrer and up.

Sipo/SD men in officers' rank had often, depending on their career, police civil service rank as well as SS rank.

As I wrote above, you would do well to read about the structure and character of these organizations in order to understand the insignia. The point: the SD originated within the NSDAP structure of the SS but came to embrace state police organizations so that there existed an overlap. In the years 1937-1938 there was a particular effort on the part of the SS to offer officer or otherwise ranks to civil servants in the political police: the so called Dienstgradausgleich

The internet is not enough to unravel the riddle of all of this, I am sorry to say at the risk of being a school marm.

Happy cuffs to all.

Postscriptum: the Axis History Forum usually has top flight information especially about details of the RSHA and SD system as concerns personalities, structures and some regalia. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

[vady]

the questioner is sailing into troubled waters, but ones well worth struggling through.

indeed many thanks to bob coleman, f-b et al for the wisdom and patience. and, maybe most of all, the caveats!

Once more, see Mollo vol V or Angolia on this account. The Mollo books have the signal trait that they link the regalia to the organization in a chronological and thematic way. The Beaver books do not do this in a consistent way, which is sad granted how nice are the color plates. But the key resides in the organizational evolution which was swift and highly complicated, especially for someone unfamiliar with Germany in the early 20th century.

Generally, all ranks wore the blank cuff title, unless assigned to higher HQs as you so indicate.

Cf. also the Beaver books as well for actual examples of such uniforms.

Officer ranks were from Untersturmfuehrer and up.

Sipo/SD men in officers' rank had often, depending on their career, police civil service rank as well as SS rank.

As I wrote above, you would do well to read about the structure and character of these organizations in order to understand the insignia. The point: the SD originated within the NSDAP structure of the SS but came to embrace state police organizations so that there existed an overlap. In the years 1937-1938 there was a particular effort on the part of the SS to offer officer or otherwise ranks to civil servants in the political police: the so called Dienstgradausgleich

The internet is not enough to unravel the riddle of all of this, I am sorry to say at the risk of being a school marm.

Happy cuffs to all.

Postscriptum: the Axis History Forum usually has top flight information especially about details of the RSHA and SD system as concerns personalities, structures and some regalia. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Mollo made the point four decades ago and same has lost none of its power and persuasion. Namely, the seeker must know the history of the regalia and its organization. We are not dealing, say, with a regiment of the British army that has existed for three hundred years, or even the 101st Airborne of the US Army. All of these SS entities existed briefly, and, in the case of the Sipo/SD &c. were not very large in size. And they were complicated in character, marked by constant change. that is unknown except to a handful of specialists.

If the issue is the regalia as visible in a modified action figure for a collector market, the monies involved are not great levied against the cost of an actual uniform from the era. There a beginner needs serious expert aid and maximum caution.

Now what is really rare is the blue uniform of the Prussian political police of the 19th century.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

an addition in this area.

[DrCMH]

Mollo has the best treatment of who and who not was entitled to wear the SD rhombus in its forms.

This variation was for those with previous service in the Gestapa, i.e. the prototype Nazi political police agency formed in Prussia soon after the Nazi seizure of power in January 1933.

Our readers will recall the role that Goering played in the creation of said entity in Prussia, while Himmler and Heydrich took over the political police in Bavaria. Heini H. acquired control of the Prussian organization in early 1934.

The attached badge is in the Peperra collection.

I do sorely miss FB and Bob Coleman's participation here. I wish them both well. They spent much time spreading a wealth of knowledge and we are all the better for it. It was not wasted time on their part. Thank you, gentlemen.