slanted pockets on SS Allgemeine tunic ?

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The black SS tunic in the years 1932-1939 or so was worn by all branches of the SS, of which the Allgemeine SS was in Himmler's mind always the core of the organization.
The subject of our interest existed in history for a brief period of time.
The issue of the wear of such a uniform after the outbreak of war is treated in other threads in great detail.

[backtothefront]

Greetings. All questions on black SS tunics are welcome as the response that they elicit is always rivetting, generous and educational. I really should start keeping copies of your photos F.B. for my private reference collection, if you dont mind. Thanks for your efforts to make this site so worthwhile and valuable to collectors and interested parties. Regards, Paul

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Greetings. All questions on black SS tunics are welcome as the response that they elicit is always rivetting, generous and educational. I really should start keeping copies of your photos F.B. for my private reference collection, if you dont mind. Thanks for your efforts to make this site so worthwhile and valuable to collectors and interested parties. Regards, Paul

Thanks. I provide pictures of my things so that you can keep them for reference. That's the point, surely and, I hope, has more merit than endless images of fakes as well as circular speculation about shadows, chimaeras, and shades that are meaningless.

[colt45]

great history ... education... when did the tunic up & down collar start?

[BOB COLEMAN]

The black SS tunic in the years 1932-1939 or so was worn by all branches of the SS, of which the Allgemeine SS was in Himmler's mind always the core of the organization.
The subject of our interest existed in history for a brief period of time.
The issue of the wear of such a uniform after the outbreak of war is treated in other threads in great detail.

It certainly is frustrating to still see all black uniform items referred to as "Allgemeine" SS. This is not only true with collectors but even major dealers! Allegemeine SS insignia would have a numbered collar tab indicating the standarte, not runes like the insignia on the tunic that started this thread.

[all1knew]

It certainly is frustrating to still see all black uniform items referred to as "Allgemeine" SS. This is not only true with collectors but even major dealers! Allegemeine SS insignia would have a numbered collar tab indicating the standarte, not runes like the insignia on the tunic that started this thread.

thank you for education. So, just to understand correctly, because of the runed collar tab this would simply be referred to as a black SS tunic or pre-war SS tunic?

William Kramer

[BOB COLEMAN]

The rune collar tab was worn prewar by The LAH and Deutschland, Germania and Der Fuhrer with numbers with the runes, 1 for Deutschaland, 2 for Germania and 3 for Der Fuhrer. The correct terminology would be a black SS tunic as FB had mentioned, it was the dress uniform of all branches of the SS. The gray tunic was also worn pre war and during the war by certain sections of the Allgemeine SS as a service uniform. Therefore, not all gray SS tunics are Waffen SS.
It can be very confusing for the collector when dealers and even some advanced collectors do not properly identify an object.

[HPL2008]

I, for one, would simply use the term "black uniform" or "black service dress", the latter term being exactly how it was known in the day: "schwarzer Dienstanzug". (or "Dienstanzug, schwarz" = "service dress, black"]

Since - as Bob Coleman and Friedrich-Berthold have already pointed out - the black uniform was originally worn by all branches and units of the SS and was still worn in the war years by some of them - namely the Allgemeine SS and the Germanische SS - the terms "Allgemeine SS uniform" and "pre-war SS uniform" are equally inaccurate.

(Sometimes, one also encounters the designation "M32 uniform" on the internet. Granted, as the black uniform was introduced in 1932, the meaning conveyed by the term is not actually wrong... However, the problem is, it is pure collectorspeak with no basis in German period terminology whatsoever.)

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The rune collar tab was worn prewar by The LAH and Deutschland, Germania and Der Fuhrer with numbers with the runes, 1 for Deutschaland, 2 for Germania and 3 for Der Fuhrer. The correct terminology would be a black SS tunic as FB had mentioned, it was the dress uniform of all branches of the SS. The gray tunic was also worn pre war and during the war by certain sections of the Allgemeine SS as a service uniform. Therefore, not all gray SS tunics are Waffen SS.
It can be very confusing for the collector when dealers and even some advanced collectors do not properly identify an object.

As an addendum to this fine analysis: The runic badge on the collar was first introduced for the LAH, and also for the SS Politische Bereitschaften of the SS Oberabschnitte, which were transformed into the SS Verfuegungstruppe in the course of 1934. Nineteen thirty four was the pivotal year in the development of this organization and its uniform.
Other units of the SSVT also wore the runic collar patch, as here, the Sani Abt. of the SSVT, for instance.

The SS by 1934 was divided into its respective branches, whereby the SSTV emerged in 1934/5, and the Sipo/SD more or less at the same time, alongside the Allgemeine SS.
Himmler was at pains to hold all the bits of the SS together, since each had a tendency to go its separate way.

The images of collar patches in their number are from the Delich and Gamelson collections. The latter does not exist anymore as you see it here, I believe. The former is the Rock of Gibraltar for us SS collectors and its owner our senior.

The SS VT Sani Abt thingy is mine.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

I, for one, would simply use the term "black uniform" or "black service dress", the latter term being exactly how it was known in the day: "schwarzer Dienstanzug". (or "Dienstanzug, schwarz" = "service dress, black"]

Since - as Bob Coleman and Friedrich-Berthold have already pointed out - the black uniform was originally worn by all branches and units of the SS and was still worn in the war years by some of them - namely the Allgemeine SS and the Germanische SS - the terms "Allgemeine SS uniform" and "pre-war SS uniform" are equally inaccurate.

(Sometimes, one also encounters the designation "M32 uniform" on the internet. Granted, as the black uniform was introduced in 1932, the meaning conveyed by the term is not actually wrong... However, the problem is, it is pure collectorspeak with no basis in German period terminology whatsoever.)

Thank you. The twisted argot embodied by "M32" makes me want to break the computer, in fact. The original documents refer to the color of the uniform, and not always with great precision.