The SS Bandolier

[d'alquen]

Having never quite understood why the SS felt it necessary to employ two patterns of bandolier, I was wondering if anyone could add photos or documents that might clarify the matter.
Mollo, in an addendum to his volume 4, states the version with the two rows of lace was intended for the Allgemeine-SS and the single row was for the SS-VT.
Here is a picture, supporting that statement, of the special version for cavalry units that shows the double row being worn by members of the Allgemeine-SS in 1937.
d'alquen

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thanks for your post complete with the nice image of the Reiter SS. I had not known that there were two different kinds of bandolier in the SS. You see, that is why we are grateful you post here. If you cannot find the documentary evidence, how can the rest of us?

I am always referring everyone to you in any case.

We all need to hire researchers in Germany with access to the real archives and some greater level of knowledge.

In the realm of wild a$$ guess, plainly a bandolier to be worn in the mounted role would have to more robust than those on foot. Have you looked at similar objects in the German army, i.e. infantry versus cavalry or artillery bandoliers?

Imagine a Puppe with all of this rig on it today in some blessed collection. Such would make for a contented collector.

Thanks and sorry to have nothing else to offer you.

[d'alquen]

Here is the other pattern worn by the SS-VT. It has a single row of tress as opposed to the double row you can see in the first picture. In the course of this little study I will see what documentation might pop up regarding these accoutrements.
I chose this shot for those interested in the organisational aspects of the SS-VT as it is a rare shot of the fourth battalion flag of the Deutschland regiment and the patch uses a "D" instead of "SS1" illustrated in most references.
d'alquen

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thanks for the very interesting contrast and fine illustrations.

Where are the records for this sort of thing?

That is, where in the SS files microfilmed by the US National Archives?

Or in the files in the Bundesarchiv, if at all?

To be sure, in the abstracts of the RZM Mitteilungsblaetter visible in Uniformenmarkt, various obscure details of regalia do get mentioned, but the SS appears very, very infrequently.

Thanks again. I am also sure that the secondary sources especially in English on the growth and evolution of armed para military SS units in the period 1933-1939 are far from complete.

The Fahnentraeger in the 2d image is surely grown in the Gardemass, i.e. XXL variety appropriate for the role.

[d'alquen]

Hmm, I now find there were possibly three versions of the sash. The one for the SS-VT, item 488, illustrated from a 1937 document; and two for the Allgemeine-SS, items 486 and 487 (from 1939). Interesting that the two A-SS versions show such a minor price difference. Hopefully a picture will emerge which will illustrate the version used for the stander as opposed to the standard and battalion flags. Perhaps it is the cavalry version shown above, although I had presumed that stander referred to the other flags flown by the SS?
d'alquen

[d'alquen]

This well-known picture offers a good view of the Allgemeine-SS style bandolier, item 487, being used with battalion flags.
d'alquen

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thanks for the nice material above.

I think the Stander are the mounted unit flags in your first illustration, whereas the Fahnen und Standarten are self evident in the second. It also stands to reason that while mounted, the shape and length of the bandolier would be different.

I do not have images of these for das deutsche Heer, but I am sure it would give you some idea.

Finally, were there not separate price lists for the Allgem. SS and then, in turn, for the SSVT and SSTV?

Thanks for the nice material.

You also notice in the Hugo Jaeger picture that one of these SS Reiter personages in the background wears a white cap in 1938.

[d'alquen]

Yes, I have searched for years to no avail for another shot of this scene that shows that white cap better.
The introductions to the Allgemeine-SS price lists would lead one to believe that separate lists were published for the TV and VT but I have yet to find them. Given that both these branches were equipped out of the state purse I would see no need for price lists for distribution in the same way as the A-SS needed them. Having said that there is, of course, the Kleiderkasse-SS list and the Dachau clothing department published a list in 1942.
Back to subject at hand, I am sure you are right but I find the term stander unusual to denote reiterstandarten.
d'alquen

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Yes, I have searched for years to no avail for another shot of this scene that shows that white cap better.
The introductions to the Allgemeine-SS price lists would lead one to believe that separate lists were published for the TV and VT but I have yet to find them. Given that both these branches were equipped out of the state purse I would see no need for price lists for distribution in the same way as the A-SS needed them. Having said that there is, of course, the Kleiderkasse-SS list and the Dachau clothing department published a list in 1942.
Back to subject at hand, I am sure you are right but I find the term stander unusual to denote reiterstandarten.
d'alquen

I have various German military dictionaries, and one of 1936 makes a distinction between a Standarte as a cavalry unit flag versus a Fahne as an infantry or otherwise unmounted unit flag.

The Bild Duden of the era is also of merit for identifying the proper terms.

The Uniformenmarkt of mine spends endless columns through the years on the standardization of nomenclature, apparently to no good end.

The fact you have found no such price list for the SSVT and SSTV is very interesting, surely.

The excerpts of the Mitteilungsblaetter der RZM in Uniformenmarkt hint that there were price lists published for the SS therein.

Thanks for posing an interesting and significant question with us here.

I appreciate it.

Postscriptum: I am sure on the lord of the flies website someone has proper images of similar bandoliers in use in other uniformed organizations in the III. Reich as comparison, and maybe there are even prices for same...?

[d'alquen]

Another interesting facet of this little investigation is that the SS-TV is consistently included in period documents with the Allgemeine-SS. Here, in this shot of the standard of Thueringen, it is apparent they used the Allgemeine-SS style bandolier as opposed to the SS-VT style.
d'alquen