SS Bandsman Tunic for review...

[dzyner]

Hi all. I'd like some opinions on this Bandsman tunic as there simply isn't much reference material out there related to these (that I can find or have access to anyway). The musician's swallows nests notwithstanding; there are examples out there to compare with and I like what I see with regard to those. The diamond pattern and construction appear to conform to known examples, as do the hook and catch application.

I'm unsure about the collar tabs since I cannot seem to find an example of this specific type (with the SS runes and harp). Typically these are seen with a number beneath the runes so I'm at a loss. I'm not thrilled about the stitching of the tabs to the collar (a bit uneven), but I also don't know enough about the regulations associated with these.

The tunic itself appears to be ok; I like the cloth, the cut, the liner and inside sleeve material, but once again - not familiar with these musicians tunics to know whether or not this is even the correct style.

Those are my thoughts, what do you black SS cloth guys think?



















Thanks!
Dzyner

[jHAM]

It is what my mentor would call a stinker.

This forum has more info on the black deinstrock than anywhere else. Years and hours of effort freely given by men of eminent qualifications. I encourage you to go back and read through the old threads here.

I send my thanks and best wishes to those unnamed.

[BOB COLEMAN]

Some very obvious errors in this piece which should be evident by some study. Not worth anything in my opinion.

[dzyner]

Thanks guys for your knowledge and feedback. Invaluable as always!

I would like to know more about the obvious issues with this specific tunic, as I'm sure others who come across this post down the road will also wonder. Since my focus related to cloth is Heer and Luftwaffe (and some political), my understanding of the nuances of SS cloth is very limited as noted in my opening post, but I love to learn which is why I post here.

Also, unfortunately the several books that I reference on SS cloth do not focus (at all) on these musician/bandsman tunics, and combing through other forum posts are not providing the answers related to this specific tunic unless I'm missing the cache of "deinstrock" related threads that jHAM is referencing. I searched the forum for "deinstrock" and I see only a single result; this thread. I search "bandsman tunic" and I get two results (including this thread). A search for "musician tunic" turns up one result with a single photo and one reply from Bob, but no real practical information. I may be wrong, but since this style of tunic differs from your standard black SS tunic I would think referencing threads related to standard black SS tunics would not be wise in this case.

At any rate, details are always appreciated, but I'm always very appreciative of simple answers as well (e.g. "no good", "fake", "its a stinker") when posted from you guys, the experts, as it keeps the money in my pocket and the junk out of my personal collection And while the lack of specific details does not help one to learn, over time seeing enough good ones and bad ones will help things sink in naturally.

Dzyner

[HPL2008]

Also, unfortunately the several books that I reference on SS cloth do not focus (at all) on these musician/bandsman tunics, and combing through other forum posts are not providing the answers related to this specific tunic unless I'm missing the cache of "deinstrock" related threads that jHAM is referencing. I searched the forum for "deinstrock" and I see only a single result; this thread. I search "bandsman tunic" and I get two results (including this thread). A search for "musician tunic" turns up one result with a single photo and one reply from Bob, but no real practical information. I may be wrong, but since this style of tunic differs from your standard black SS tunic I would think referencing threads related to standard black SS tunics would not be wise in this case.

You need to search for "Dienstrock", not "Deinstrock". This will yield more results.

Also, there was no special service tunic for musicians; they wore the same uniforms as anybody else. (The only distinctions were the swallow's nests for bandsmen and a sleeve diamond with a lyre for bandmasters.) Hence, there really is no need to search for a musician's tunic in particular.

[dzyner]

You need to search for "Dienstrock", not "Deinstrock". This will yield more results.

Aha! That explains it, good eye. I simply copied and pasted from jHAM's post. Quite a lot more results with the correct spelling. Thanks for the correction Andreas!

[CBH]

To me the collars look huge and misshapen . IMHO

[Friedrich-Berthold]

You need to search for "Dienstrock", not "Deinstrock". This will yield more results.

Also, there was no special service tunic for musicians; they wore the same uniforms as anybody else. (The only distinctions were the swallow's nests for bandsmen and a sleeve diamond with a lyre for bandmasters.) Hence, there really is no need to search for a musician's tunic in particular.

Also look under "black SS uniform" and or "black SS tunic"

You should buy vol. III of Mollo's series on the SSVT. You can familiarize yourself with the insignia of the SSVT and what does and what does not conform to the norm, there.

The sub specialty of musician in the SSVT was designated by the arm insignia, not this fantasy collar patch.

The tunic's piping is incorrect.

The shoulder board is incorrect.

The rank and the piping are of the pre late 1934 posture, and, as such, do not correspond with originals.

and on and on.

I have included many examples from my collection in thousands of posts.

These images have spread across the internet.

This uniform has the configuration of rank badges as found in almost no known examples surviving in collections, i.e. company grade officers with the alu and black twisted piping. An authentic item of this type would be very rare. The bulk of said uniforms were then modified when the clothing regulations were changed in late 1934.
And the piping on this item corresponds to widely seen fakes....

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Black SS tunics have been faked since the end of the 1950s, if not longer. They were legion in the middle 1960s, when I first started to search for one.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

This is how the lower officer ranked uniforms were decorated in 99% of cases as found in collections today.