SS doctors outfit and trunk

[bigmacglenn]

In view of SS ideology, and the attention that Himmler devoted to various similar pseudo/scienctific/medical research, it doesn't surprise me terribly to see the SS Arzt title.
I am far more intrigued by the images he chose to keep w/ the trunk...there's a theme of "morbidity"...anyone else notice this? Thanks for the photos!
Thank you for pointing out the Breast Eagle "Shadow"...I must get new glasses soon.

[HPL2008]

Firstly, the officer in question, Dr Joachim Caesar. I looked this fellow up, and according to my information, he obtained a Doctorate in Natural Sciences from Halle University in 1927, specialising in agronomy. Therefore, he was never a medical doctor, so I have to doubt that he would be in the SS Medical Service, and surely he was not qualified to be an SS-Arzt?

Secondly, the handwriting of the word CAESAR on the trousers and on the case seem to be identical (again I am not an expert on handwriting), but if I am correct about the appointment SS-Arzt being added, then it would suggest the name on the pants is also an addition, and would explain why the piping colour does not fit (i.e. they are actually a pair of Heer transport officer's pants).

I agree. Dr. Joachim Caesar was indeed an agronomist, not a medical doctor.

He could not have worn physician's insignia or carried the title SS-Arzt.

In view of SS ideology, and the attention that Himmler devoted to various similar pseudo/scienctific/medical research, it makes perfect sense to me that he has the title of SS Arzt.

Sorry, but, no it does not make sense. Arzt was and is a professional title protected by law and using it without being an actual physician was and is a criminal offense. Himmler, of all people, would never have tolerated it.

I am far more intrigued by the images he chose to keep w/ the trunk...there's a theme of "morbidity"...anyone else notice this?

Yes; and it is worth to notice that this is just what the general public would expect of an SS physician, isn't it?

His work history all seems to be related to agriculture and especially experiments with seeding and yields. For example, a very important area of research was done during his time at Auschwitz on obtaining rubber from Russian dandelion plants. I believe he was classed as a specialist officer (Fachführer), and was attached to KZ Auschwitz, being technically part of the SS-WVHA.

The SS-Dienstaltersliste of 30 January 1944 lists his Waffen-SS rank as Stubaf. (F), i.e. a Sturmbannführer-ranked Fachführer.

The Dienstaltersliste der Waffen-SS of 1 July 1944 gives his Waffen-SS rank as Obersturmbannführer der Reserve with a promotion date of 21 June 1944.

Thus, at some point between January and June 1944, he was transferred from Fachführer status to reserve officer status; apparently with simultaneous (or at least very swift subsequent) promotion to Obersturmbannführer.

Either he never held the W-SS rank displayed on the tunic, i.e. that of a (non-Fachführer) Sturmbannführer at all, or only for a very short period of at most a few months. In any case, the rank insignia on the tunic don't match his final rank.

See here for an image of Dr. Caesar (center) wearing Obersturmbannführer rank insignia:
http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archiv...r__388134a.jpg

Secondly, the handwriting of the word CAESAR on the trousers and on the case seem to be identical (again I am not an expert on handwriting), but if I am correct about the appointment SS-Arzt being added, then it would suggest the name on the pants is also an addition, and would explain why the piping colour does not fit (i.e. they are actually a pair of Heer transport officer's pants).

Another valid observation.

Piped pants were regulation for the armed SS for only a very short period of time in 1940 (although that alone does not necessarily mean something), but the light blue color does neither match the shoulder boards nor does it make sense for Dr. Caesar's occupational specialty.

All things considered, I must admit I have serious very doubts in this ensemble.

PS: One final observation - although this might just be the photograph - There seems to be a discoloration above the right breast pocket where a Heer eagle would be.

[kc1]

I can see the eagle 'shadow' also
The naming in the trousers appears to be ballpoint pen, ink from an ink pen would have tended to run into the material
Why wouldn't someone of rank in one of the camps have had sewn in name tags
Why would anyone keep a labelled case identifying themselves as a war criminal of the highest order leading to a death sentence from most of the countries in Europe

[goodbuys]

You are entitled to your opinions,but you always come out against everything!! As the guy BATTERY post accused me of putting the Caeser name in the pants and on the trunk Nothing lights up when a blacklight is applied to the whole outfit.And before you say that a blacklight isn't the final tool,its a tool many,many dealer/collectors use.As you are ripping apart my SS you are not the greatest expert on this material and as i said nothing is good according to you!!! Look at my cased Honor Goblet what can you find wrong with that!Most of the members are glad to see rare items,you just rip everything apart.Thats my opinion of you.

[ObKrieger]

You are entitled to your opinions,but you always come out against everything!! As the guy BATTERY post accused me of putting the Caeser name in the pants and on the trunk Nothing lights up when a blacklight is applied to the whole outfit.And before you say that a blacklight isn't the final tool,its a tool many,many dealer/collectors use.As you are ripping apart my SS you are not the greatest expert on this material and as i said nothing is good according to you!!! Look at my cased Honor Goblet what can you find wrong with that!Most of the members are glad to see rare items,you just rip everything apart.Thats my opinion of you.

Hey guy, no need to be rude, these are just opinions. I have to agree with Andreas, though. This is a very interesting kind of grouping that doesn't appear very often so there is going to be some intense discussion about it, which is exactly what this forum is for. Just please keep it respectful.

I would take Andreas's advice word for word. I swear I feel like a whole new man every time I read a post of his.

[goodbuys]

Rest assured you weren't there were you???How do you know what went on,are you a mystic.I really was waiting for you guys,because every forum has them.Fine i wrote in the Doctors name according to Battery post and this guy above in the replies has nothing good to say about anything.SS members used ARMY stuff and you know what i really dont care what you say,i paid a song for the whole outfit and i have posted an HONOR goblet [cased w/the award document and a SA white tunic and kepi which someone i dont know but respect had nice words to say which is more that i can say for you and the other "EXPERT"POST ALL YOU WANT I JUST DONT LIKE TO BE TALKED TO BY GASBAGS.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Please keep this respectful. I will not tolerate insults.

[kc1]

If you post something for examination and comment then you must expect both positive and negative comments. Personally having looked beyond the immediate 'buzz' of a collection of SS items and having read the observations of both Battery and HPL2008, both of whom have carried out basic internet research to back their arguement, i wouldn't buy this accumulation.

[ObKrieger]

Rest assured you weren't there were you???How do you know what went on,are you a mystic.I really was waiting for you guys,because every forum has them.Fine i wrote in the Doctors name according to Battery post and this guy above in the replies has nothing good to say about anything.SS members used ARMY stuff and you know what i really dont care what you say,i paid a song for the whole outfit and i have posted an HONOR goblet [cased w/the award document and a SA white tunic and kepi which someone i dont know but respect had nice words to say which is more that i can say for you and the other "EXPERT"POST ALL YOU WANT I JUST DONT LIKE TO BE TALKED TO BY GASBAGS.

I love this grouping and your collection as much as the next guy, I just like to see friendly talk going on here. Don't get mad at people for posting their opinions. That is what we are here for.

[goodbuys]

I am respectful to those who treat me respectful.How would like to be accused of screwing around with that outfit.I come from the old school OB and i dont take kindly to someone calling me a fraud.I started in 1969 and that doesnot make me an expert nor is anyone else.Nobody knows everything about German memorabilla from A-Z thats imo impossible.They have their opinion and thats there God given right.Its how you go about giving it either like a gentleman or a rude person.Thats all the posting i will do for now as i have to calm down after dealing with these guys.Sorry you and other members had to to see it,but again i dont tolerate being called a fraud when i have never screwed with this or any of my German collection.CaRL