SS Grouping from recent auction

[greimers]

The cut and characteristics of this tunic do not identify with what I expect to see in an SS tunic, to me it's design is nearly that of a Forester's tunic. Having said that there are other aspects that could substantiate this being an individuals private purchase tailoring. Thank God we have FB, Bob, Robert and David for guidance and knowledge.

[Robert H]

Who knows for sure all those items are from the same person, his name is written in one visor cap only.
Only the seller knows really where this group came out, he also was not the finder of this group I assume and possible "only" the 2nd person.
The caps are solid good, the EM tunic as well, the typ off tunic looks OK to me the tunic in question who knows.
For sure private tailored, if SS or not or for any other reason no one might can tell for sure.
For my taste nothing I would spend hundreds on.
Instead I bought the nice Schinkel IC2nd class what made me quite happy.

[jimt]

Bob,
Mark Yeager says that this guy was never a officer, died , see last post on WAF.
jim

[Doktor No]

The Research rips this one. I agree with Robert on the Hats.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The cut and characteristics of this tunic do not identify with what I expect to see in an SS tunic, to me it's design is nearly that of a Forester's tunic. Having said that there are other aspects that could substantiate this being an individuals private purchase tailoring. Thank God we have FB, Bob, Robert and David for guidance and knowledge.

As concerns this thread and whatever insight it purports to offer, let me say that I have neither guidance nor knowledge to impart as pertains to this material. None.

[youthcollector1]

It appears from the roster he never reached the rank of SS-Untersturmführer...cases closed IMO.

[butschekantiques]

Hello everyone,

I hope I can be of help in this case since I´m the only one here who had these tunics in hands.
It is sometimes hard to judge items by pictures. No question.

You might want to note that all of his tunis are exactly the same size. Please see pictures.
Well, his field tunic is a little shorter of course.

The liner and cloth of the SS-VT cut tunic is exactly the same as the straight trousers.
The buttons of the straight trousers are exactly the same as the ones of his breeches.

The collar of this tunic is green, not black.

One short funny story which could help in this case:
One veteran I knew kept on wearing his Leutnant tunic on his birthdays. Postwar!
He ordered it at the tailor but war was slightly „too short“ to receive his promised promotion as he said.
His mother picked it up since he was in the field. He did not have a hands one before returning from his POW time. Anyway…

Something similar might have happened to Gerke. His breeches, trousers and the SS-VT cut tunic are clearly unworn.
One period time document mentions „Untersturmführer“ in this files so something was going on for sure. Maybe he was killed in action before the promotion reached him but he certainly expected it. Was he not allowed to buy his officers uniform at the tailor in advance? Maybe he liked the early SS-VT cut and order it like this?

I can´t see any problem with this tunic.
Hope this helps.

Kind regards
Klaus

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thank you for the explanation.
This man was a Standartenoberjunker at the time of his death or not, a rankt, I would note, that indicates a path of promotion to an officer's commission.
A Standartenoberjunker was, I believe, essentially a Faehnrich like rank, i.e. an officer candidate. See; Mollo, VI, 84ff.
It is a reflection of especially how few English speaking persons in these spaces have any military experience, to say nothing of any experience of the German and Austrian
military either in its present or historical dimension, that such misunderstandings do eventuate.

Thanks to Mr. Butschek for the commentary.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Thank you for the explanation.
This man was a Standartenoberjunker at the time of his death, a rank, I would note, that indicates a path of promotion to an officer's commission.
A Standartenoberjunker was, I believe, essentially a Faehnrich like rank, i.e. an officer candidate. See; Mollo, VI, 84ff.
It is a reflection of especially how few English speaking persons in these spaces have any military experience, to say nothing of any experience of the German and Austrian
military either in its present or historical dimension, that such misunderstandings do eventuate.

I am at a loss . . . I feel as if I am seeing the insignia of an Untersturmfuhrer - and not that of an Standartenoberjunker, FB.

I suppose you could count me amongst the majority of English speaking persons. For the sake of the those like myself - that not of the "few", as you say - do explain, please.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The Stammrollenkarte, i.e. the man's personnel file or the death card that goes with it, apparently shows his progress in rank.
May I say that forty years of military experience in the U.S. and continental Europe has acquainted
me with screw ups of personnel and unknown unknowns (Hermann Kahn & Rumsfeld). These realities contrast
with the level of knowledge shown by persons in these spaces with a very rudimentary acquaintance with military personnel systems, to say nothing
of such in the collapsing years of the III. Reich. And one might mention those who have little or no command of German, and cannot successfully
read primary sources.

Let me also be blunt: there is also here the phenomenon all too promiscuous among certain advanced SS collectors or those who aspire to be-- without
overcoming the seven deadly sins--of casting doubt on virtually everything.

I have not seen this material. My sole observations are: a.) the caps are the same size; and b.) the man was apparently a commissioned officer, or about to become one
whereas certain savants based on whatever claim that he was not.....

I think the whole thing stinks, actually.