SS LAH Panzer Wrapper

[Wagriff]

It's things precisely like this that made me abandon ship in the high end collecting fields. Every tiny thing is now argued and debated to death and beyond-even items who's provenances are locked down and 100% verified. It seems like every time you go to sell an item, immediately, out come the nit-pickers and nay sayers. It doesn't matter if you have a photo of the owner Wearing the piece-it's still torn to bits in the bottomless shark pools of know it alls. And purchasing is even worse You can Never be Ever 100% sure and at ease when buying Anything over 5 bucks in value. "This bit looks odd......that part may have been replaced....is that stitching proper?...That insignia isn't correct....that should have been mounted 1 tenth of an inch to the left of where it is..." And on and on it goes. It doesn't matter in the least that there are countless period photos of people wearing or holding non-regulation or unusual pieces. We see pictures almost daily being posted here showing odd things and asking "Why is this person wearing this? " Don't know, but now here it is for Sale, and it must be Fake, as we all Know that wasn't the way they were worn or used! It doesn't matter that men were still men back then the same as they are today-that they liked to be different or eccentric and showy. They did things that weren't always by the book-they went out and had uniforms and insignia tailor made-customized and fit-they knew they had to be in uniform, but they wanted to be Just that Little Bit Different and above the common herd. But now, 70 years later, their jeweler made badges and tailor stitched tunics and caps are all fakes. Throw them away.
Damn the fakers and their never ending more and more craftier and sinister products. I'd like to see them all shot or in prison for their endless bilking of innocent and naive collectors from all over the Planet-it's a many times million dollar industry now. They have to be sociopaths, or else I don't know how they could ever feel right about what they are doing. I have mental images of "Somewhere" there being literally Factories churning out this rubbish and thievery. China? Poland? Latvia? Russia? All of the above? I know that I have seen and read interviews with Chinese companies making near perfect antique and valuable Coins. One official told the reporter :We can make Anything that you want. Anything!". We all hate and revile people like Pavel Nowak, but the Real swine in this hobby are these always striving to make more and more perfect fake crap Producers. How many of you would buy a common German WWII ring today? They used to be a dime a dozen. And if you had the money to spend, would you buy a nice black SS tunic? Maybe spend 25 or 30 grand or more on a swords and oaks Ritter? If you did, would you Ever feel totally at ease about it? Or would it always be that tickle in the back of your head wondering....Is it Real? Will I find out 20 years from now when I go to sell it-or my family does when I'm gone-that it's a clever high end fake piece of garbage? Maybe-just maybe-it may even actually Be genuine, but the "experts" will Still denounce it and it will end up in the trash bin anyway as unsellable because of this. People like Joe Walters of the now infamous defunct "House of Swords and Militaria" sold Tons of Extremely high end fake swords from India(He told me this Himself) that even Today are still being proudly exhibited in collections. Swords, medals, uniforms, flags-you name it. And this was just One company and it was a Long Time Ago. As Jacob Marley said,"It was as full and as long as this seven Christmas eves ago and you have labored on it since. Ah, it is a ponderous chain!" Think of the refinement and revised detailing that has been worked on all these years since Joe Walters sold his trash. Look at the Honour Rings that today are beginning to slip past even the book writing Experts. Uniforms and caps that have sat in collections for Decades, that are now being looked at again with a raised eyebrow. Even Museums are filling their cases with this filth. What a mess this hobby is getting to be. I feel sorry for Tomorrow's collectors!

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The above essay manifests a thoughtful, pessimistic reading of things. The points about variation and personal taste are absolutely valid and very significant.
For myself, I have learned a great deal in the last decade despite the horrors and outrages.
A skilled person, attentive to the demands of the task, and skeptical in a healthy way can make their way in the thicket, but with some risk. To acquire all the knowledge needed is not done in an afternoon, or even with a hundred posts here. It is a more consuming task. I think Richard P was an informed collector, since he worked together with others I know and respect and upon whose analytical ability I rely.
The quality and volume of fakes today is considerable. I concentrate on textiles, since things of metal were dicey even in 1965.
The fakers were rampant in the late 1960s. The beginner has far greater resources at hand today than then.
The cannibal and the grave robber can also engage in their larceny with great ease via the digital blow, but there are also others who can see through the smoke screen of nonsense of self inflated blander.
One other point as concerns textiles is this: the German firms that made these textiles are mostly gone; I am not convinced that warehouses of unused SS Trikot are easily had as some purport here; and, most important, the nice Chinese tailors or whatever who make SS uniforms now are surely not the original artisans, and are devoid of their skill. I never collected cheaply made field uniforms, but black tunics, and the well made fakes of these in no way really duplicate an authentic, 80 year old garment. In no way. It is also true that one can decorate a real tunic with real insignia to make something of dubious history, but which fools many people. This problem is hardly a new one, and was present for me in the 1960s, too, with the glee with which army artillery piped field tunics were elevated to general's rank, as well as with Waffenroecke.
But here is a key point......and one which defies being gainsaid.
If you read the sources, uniform tailors were a rare breed in 1936. They required special training then, and were in short supply.
I have already made the point that in the late 19th and early 20th century, the apprenticeship for a tailor was e i g h t years. Such an thing is unfeasible and unaffordable today by any stretch.
Nor are Chinese uniforms actually made as an expensive and well made III. Reich uniform of the era.

In any case, a beginning collector has access to some very fine expertise, which I surely did not have as a pup in 1964 or 1965.

But this episode of the lynch mob going after the blessed soul of Richard P. is deeply disgusting and repugnant in the extreme.
And so what if a few of his pieces turn out to be fake? Does such a fact in any way justify this digital cannibalism and witch's sabbath as had by the goons on Bianchi's wretched site?

[Friedrich-Berthold]

and here are "sculls...." if reading more than a sentence is a bridge too far for some....these are the visual lowest common denominator.

[Francesco]

My limited knowledge of the language does not allow me to address in depth discussions but I would try to say something.
Here I'm reading a lot of smart post and I'm very happy! I'm happy because this is the proof that there are still good place where we can talk about MILITARIA without personal ego,jealousy or desire to stand out without having the right!

Wagriff post is absolutely perfect! He accurately describes what has become the red Forum during the last years.
That's a really dangerous place to post our items.There are these new "guru" who are ready to destroy the original objects.Many of them has closed mind and are not ready to learn something new.I really have a lot of laugh when frequently read things like "the cap is good but insignia is postwar added"
or "bad and we do not give explanation why is bad..............use the search function" what this mean?! to me sound like"I don't know what to say so look what the old good collectors sayd years back in the old discussions"

Honestly I enjoyed to be part to the WAF a few years back but then there were serious collectors. Now there are only sharks that are fighting for be the "first women".
Fortunately, that site is an extreme case. There are still places where you can discuss and engage with intelligence.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

My limited knowledge of the language does not allow me to address in depth discussions but I would try to say something.
Here I'm reading a lot of smart post and I'm very happy! I'm happy because this is the proof that there are still good place where we can talk about MILITARIA without personal ego,jealousy or desire to stand out without having the right!

Wagriff post is absolutely perfect! He accurately describes what has become the red Forum during the last years.
That's a really dangerous place to post our items.There are these new "guru" who are ready to destroy the original objects.Many of them has closed mind and are not ready to learn something new.I really have a lot of laugh when frequently read things like "the cap is good but insignia is postwar added"
or "bad and we do not give explanation why is bad..............use the search function" what this mean?! to me sound like"I don't know what to say so look what the old good collectors sayd years back in the old discussions"

Honestly I enjoyed to be part to the WAF a few years back but then there were serious collectors. Now there are only sharks that are fighting for be the "first women".
Fortunately, that site is an extreme case. There are still places where you can discuss and engage with intelligence.

Well said. Let us do our utmost to protect this site.
I am always open to an informed, critical and skeptical analysis.
Hard questions and a willingness to analyze things are welcome, but what masquerades as such elsewhere is indeed a deliberate attempt to destroy real material in a kind of berserk fundamentalism.
Such is the curse of our age.
Hence my anger when an object from my collection is deployed in enemy territory.
Should you or I quietly endure the destruction of our property in the Bianchi Scheiterhaufen at the hands of those who elevate themselves via a puff of hot, stinking air to some pedestal of absurdity that cloaks itself in "authorty?"
Says who? What if the group think of these "experts" cannot withstand real peer review of real experts?

The steady refrain of "...dealers are all crooks...." is true enough on one level, but such forms no substitute for thought and analysis by a more rigorous means than the slaps and tickles that is the norm elsewhere.

[n0valyfe]

Well I like it lol if that counts for anything, most probably not

[goodbuys]

Wagriff,As fine a post as i have ever seen!I am as sick as you are.The greed of man knows no bounds.As you stated and i won't add much to what you put so fine.Joe Walters used to advertise in the "MILITARY ADVISER".He was no doubt along with ole Charlie the biggest purveyors of garbage along with a few others.You just avoided them,but they screwed countless new guys and Walters is dead and ole charlie is still around!I have seen the now countless countries and dealers selling there humped up stuff which is being called restored and rebadged and i call it regarbage!!To yourself and F-B thanks for the 100% info which hits the nail right on the head.And thanks to India,East Europe,China,and all you GREEDY THIEVES who stick your rotten fingers in our hobby,take a long walk off a short pier or words to that effect!!!

[Arran]

As a collector of more than militaria, I can assure you that these issues are both endemic and perennial in ALL fields of collecting. Fakery is as old as art itself. Learning how to spot pieces of merit is one of the challenges and joys of being a collector! It is up to us, that care, to stay informed and one step ahead of the fakers, and this forum is great for that. The fakes are not new, they're not going away, but let's not allow that fact to drive us away from an enriching and fantastic hobby! Thanks FB for posting pics of your superb pieces; this is not a pursuit for those that lack an eye for detail!

[Friedrich-Berthold]

As a collector of more than militaria, I can assure you that these issues are both endemic and perennial in ALL fields of collecting. Fakery is as old as art itself. Learning how to spot pieces of merit is one of the challenges and joys of being a collector! It is up to us, that care, to stay informed and one step ahead of the fakers, and this forum is great for that. The fakes are not new, they're not going away, but let's not allow that fact to drive us away from an enriching and fantastic hobby! Thanks FB for posting pics of your superb pieces; this is not a pursuit for those that lack an eye for detail!

Thanks. I agree totally with you and am grateful to own some de accessioned objects of yours, with the benefit of your own eye for detail.
III. Reich material was faked in the III. Reich.

[BenVK]

I wonder what the artisans who made these wonderful privately tailored garments would make of the endless analysis of grommets?