SS vizor on a SA uniform

[myky]

Bob...... thanks for the input guy...... Would it be a good guess that's why the RZM section was formed, to make sure every thing was the the same for organizational reasons ?

[BOB COLEMAN]

A very interesting photograph indeed. I believe the term satire is appropriate when referring to "arm chair quarterbacks." Those of us who have been at this for a number of years know that anomolies as shown in this photograph did exist. Many of the newer genreation of collectors will likely never understand this due to the large amount of fakes found these days. For safety reasons, they only want "textbook," a term that I strongly dislike.

[myky]

Bob..... all too true bud. And because of the fakes everyone is naturally suspicious if something isn't " textbook ". Therefore many original items are are labeled as fakes on these forums by those who haven't been in this hobby very long and rely on what they read and suppose in their own mind. Only years of actually holding and examining thousands of 3rd reich items can we even begin to gain a small amount of experience....... and just when we think we know a particular variation....... bam ! A period picture like this surfaces....
Even the best of us can be educated........and fooled, a fact that I have learned in over 50 years of devoted learning...... there's always something new !

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thanks to Derek for his intervention and those of others. There are other images of Foerster in black SS uniform at an earlier date. I assume the improvisation of his uniform reflected the organization of the SS Heimwehr Danzig in the midst of the crisis over the Korridor in the summer of 1939 and the Nazi propaganda effort that went with same.

Derek is also right to defend this forum, which is among the last sane places on the internet for persons interested in NS regalia. There is not much expertise out there and we should all to what we can to preserve same, even if the brave new world of the internet favors snippy, uninformed and down right stupid comments to cover up one's ignorance.

Hence, at the liberty of speaking for Adrian Stevenson, I hope such arm chair experts as d'Alquen will not decamp to elsewhere and we can rely on his keen eyes and wonderful library as a service to collectordom.

The others who want to pick a fight can gracefully vanish before we have them expelled for cause.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

There are many images of Foerster in various kinds of uniform at certain times. In You Tube there are also a number of Nazi documentaries on the Polish campaign as well as propaganda justifications for the launch of same due to "reputed Polish provocations, " where images of Nazi organizations in Danzig are visible. The portrait in the white or grey lapel over coat is ca. 1934. My wild guess is the cobbled together uniform in the summer of 1939 with the grey cap reflected the geopolitical exigencies of the moment. The second image here appears to be with the SS Heimwehr Danzig at hand, but I cannot recall when this unit was raised?

[Friedrich-Berthold]

of further note. Variations in his uniform and an excellent biography in German of this leading figure of the NSDAP

[myky]

The above is exactly the quality of posts that this forum deserves ! The members cannot thank you enough for them ! An honest question asked and a documented, proven, answer ! It does not get any better ! The forum will go far with this kind of dialog !

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Dear myky, thanks if the comment was directed at my posts. I can see how one might have thought this image was from say an earlier period. Historical research in photographs is a growing field and one prone to a lot of misunderstanding, in fact. Just look at the on line data bases and the lack of good captions and often good dates.

Uniformkunde as the Germans call it (that's what we do, actually...) is an old auxillary discipline of historical study, but do not tell many collectors, as they will wash their hands immediately.

The photographic record of war has also been a means of propaganda and mis information for a long time, as well.

The Germans were excellent photo journalists and the Nazis seized on the extraordinary achievements of the era 1900-1930 to leave behind this visual record of the III. Reich.

In the years since about 1959, I have spent a certain fraction of every day looking at all these images, to say nothing of collecting uniforms, hence my didactic approach.

We have a nice site here and forgive me if I get aggressive in my desire to prevent it from going the way of the German Daggers Forum and the Wehrmacht Awards Forum.

[myky]

Yes this was directed to your post........ it was very well put forward. and like you say, I hope this forum will not go in the direction of the 2 that you mentioned. I used to post honest questions like the one I did here and received some of the most misdirected, misinformed, and completely offensive answers ever. That's why I'm here ....... See you again my friend, und, dem besten danke !! Tschuess !

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Thanks once more. The fate of the other fora and the rise of destructive behavior therein form the subjects for a longer inquiry elsewhere.

I cannot understand how the internet is somehow a carte blanche for people to ditch all good manners as well as the necessary polite curiosity that is the foundation of learning about the past.

The fact is simple, however, that certain of these fora enable persons with no real interest in such polite inquiry to erect little monuments to themselves in pixels and electrons and fill same with a claque of sycophants and hangers on. This statement applies to one of the other fora, where the rule seems to be a lynch mob.

I wonder whether anything of Albert Forster endured the abyss of war's end in Danzig. We all have the writings of Guenter Grass, I guess, as the monument to Danzig in wartime.