ss vt officers tunic

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The area to look closely at with regard to the RZM tag you have posted is the typeface used to create the serial numbers of the tag. I am not referring to the Hersteller numbers.
RZM tags seemingly utilise the same font for these numbers, (certainly in my experience), and any variation should be viewed with caution. Check the font used in the examples posted here against yours.
D.

I wish to associate myself with the above statement. The Hersteller numbers (put there, I think, by the contractor...) differ widely even among the same contractor over time; by contrast, the serial number at the bottom of the tag are constant and unwavering in their font. I have downloaded hundreds of images of RZM tags to examine just such details. I especially try to capture SS RZM tags for caps and tunics, or other major items. I have tried to share the results above.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

A contractor number for Clemens Wagner, Braunschweig

[Friedrich-Berthold]

ditto, but a different stamp for # A1/4

[Friedrich-Berthold]

a 3d time

[Friedrich-Berthold]

In contrast to the Hersteller # is the serial number of the tag/cap, itself. Notice the more or less identical font as described by colleague d'Alquen. The serial # for the "Rock SS." is slightly different in size, perhaps, or not. I have never held one to the other, though I surely could. The more you handle this 70 year old plus stuff, the more it just falls apart. While I am not certain, my wild guess is that these tag received their serial number at the RZM in some mechanized process in which thousand of tags were numbered in one sitting.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

endless riddles in enigmas.

[panzer2]

fredrich berthold why you have brought this topic back up for the life of me one can only wounder ...these tags and caps haveing nothing to do with the tunic , well now this topic is back up there have been some up dates . since some started sow seeds of dought in to my mind . i sent the tunic to bill shea to go over 100% FINE REAL AND UNTOUCHED IN EVERY WAY PRE 1938 . i all so sent VERY CLEAR PHOTOS to peter jenkins ... so am i to think these two who have handled more !! ss tunics and items !! then my self and others are wrong ... i do not think so . funny i showed a tunic on another forum just the tunic not fancy full on photos of it just said what it was well well o its fake i hear one or two say . WELL TO THERE SURPRISE ITS ONE IN THE BEAVER BOOK NAMED 30 PLUS PAGE FILE so it says it all do you not think ? so now the above tunic above in this topic comes fully documented

[Bob Hritz]

I believe the further posting of SS labels is to verify that authentic labels appear to have the same font on the lower serial number (not the maker's number).

The RZM labels were purchased, as a tax, from the Reichszeugmeisterie to demonstrate compliance with RZM standards and to record receipt of the tax paid to the RZM for the priveledge of manufacturing these articles that were regulated. The serial number, on the label, was placed on the label at the time it was printed and sold to a manufacturer. There should be no variance in the numbering system or fonts of the numerals, themselves.

Each collector has to set peramaters of what gives them comfort in determining authenticity. There are enough anomolies, on the subject tunic, that it does not fall within my 'comfort level, ie; the VASS stamp is completely different from any I have seen, the cloth labels are not what I have seen, the shoulder board does not conform to the pattern for the black service tunic. The raute is vertainly oddly made and not to standards I would expect. For this tunic, the numbered cuff title seems out of place.

However, I am certainly not the last word on SS garments. It falls outside of what I would be comfortable owning, but I surely own things that fall outside of the comfort level of some other collectors. Each must set our own perameters.

I would be interested in knowing which of Mr. Beaver's tomes featured this particular garment.

Bob Hritz

[Friedrich-Berthold]

I believe the further posting of SS labels is to verify that authentic labels appear to have the same font on the lower serial number (not the maker's number).

The RZM labels were purchased, as a tax, from the Reichszeugmeisterie to demonstrate compliance with RZM standards and to record receipt of the tax paid to the RZM for the priveledge of manufacturing these articles that were regulated. The serial number, on the label, was placed on the label at the time it was printed and sold to a manufacturer. There should be no variance in the numbering system or fonts of the numerals, themselves.

Each collector has to set peramaters of what gives them comfort in determining authenticity. There are enough anomolies, on the subject tunic, that it does not fall within my 'comfort level, ie; the VASS stamp is completely different from any I have seen, the cloth labels are not what I have seen, the shoulder board does not conform to the pattern for the black service tunic. The raute is vertainly oddly made and not to standards I would expect. For this tunic, the numbered cuff title seems out of place.

However, I am certainly not the last word on SS garments. It falls outside of what I would be comfortable owning, but I surely own things that fall outside of the comfort level of some other collectors. Each must set our own perameters.

I would be interested in knowing which of Mr. Beaver's tomes featured this particular garment.

Bob Hritz

Thanks to our moderator and well known expert for this intervention. Best regards to you.

[panzer2]

well what more can i say i have sent this to bill shea who says fine peter jenkins i sent photos of the tunic and close ups of the va stampes fine , as well as the insignia pre 38 this has been in the hands of john cassino as well so . not much more i can say at this point in time