Waffen-SS M40 & M43 tunics dates of introduction!!!

[Max Ostendorff]

Hello! The question that bothers me awhile actually is: what are the exact dates of introduction the M40 and M43 tunics in Waffen-SS troops? While having a lot of books 'bout SS uniforms I still have no answer. Are there any available documented orders that specify those exat dates?

Thanx in advance, Max.

[Blitzvogel]

The terms m40, m42 and m43 were never used as far as I know, they are created by collectors. They are all different variations of the Modell 1936 feldbluse. The green collar was starting to be phased out in 1938/1939 I think, but soldiers often modified their tunics with green collars all the way to 1945. There are people in here who know better than me though.

[Max Ostendorff]

The terms m40, m42 and m43 were never used as far as I know, they are created by collectors. They are all different variations of the Modell 1936 feldbluse. The green collar was starting to be phased out in 1938/1939 I think, but soldiers often modified their tunics with green collars all the way to 1945. There are people in here who know better than me though.

Indeed. We all know this. I wonder if any particular date is actually known. With DD:MM:YY. Not just year.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The terms m40, m42 and m43 were never used as far as I know, they are created by collectors. They are all different variations of the Modell 1936 feldbluse. The green collar was starting to be phased out in 1938/1939 I think, but soldiers often modified their tunics with green collars all the way to 1945. There are people in here who know better than me though.

Well said. The use of collector happy talk terms obfuscates the work we do here. Here is what these things were called in the original.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The clothing trade was continually rationalized in the III. Reich, which manifested the modernization of trade and industry overall.
In the process, the manufacture of SS uniforms was adapted to the changing size and complexity of the SS, while, at the same time,
the general drive to efficiency and productivity was increased. The Mollo book describes this process very well, as does
the books we cite on the SS industrial enterprises and so forth.

The other aspect is the unceasing turbulence in the SS uniform itself, which was in constant flux, and it is difficult even in the original documents to distinguish
the objects which collectors cheerfully identify with their own lexicon, but which was never used by contemporaries as I illustrate above with the 1942 price list,
and a more or less 1941 SS clothing hand receipt inventory.

[HPL2008]

To be honest, I doubt that the desired information is available.

Also, just out of curiosity: Why is the exact date so significant?

Even if we knew that, say, the order to eliminate the scalloping from the pocket flaps was signed on 23rd March 1943 (I am making this up), it would have taken time to distribute and implement it and the date when the very first field blouse with straight pocket flaps actually left the factory would have been significantly later and the date by which all other manufacturers had made the changeover much later still.

Meanwhile, and for a prolonged time after this changeover phase, existing stocks of earlier-model tunics would still haven been delivered, distributed, issued and worn out before the newer ones became the standard.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Lese und staune!

Aus dem Jahre 1 9 4 2!

[Friedrich-Berthold]

To be honest, I doubt that the desired information is available.

Also, just out of curiosity: Why is the exact date so significant?

Even if we knew that, say, the order to eliminate the scalloping from the pocket flaps was signed on 23rd March 1943 (I am making this up), it would have taken time to distribute and implement it and the date when the very first field blouse with straight pocket flaps actually left the factory would have been significantly later and the date by which all other manufacturers had made the changeover much later still.

Meanwhile, and for a prolonged time after this changeover phase, existing stocks of earlier-model tunics would still haven been delivered, distributed, issued and worn out before the newer ones became the standard.

Bravo, Andreas!

[Friedrich-Berthold]

The issue here is the human desire for order where there is disorder. This impulse is manifest in our world.

My hypothesis would be the following: the collector is overwhelmed with the digital insanity and the desire in the id to manifest some kind of security then leads to the creation of an exterior set of rules, a check list, which, of course, has actually nothing to do with the subject itself and how it truly operated in the past.

Into this space of the yearning for order versus the reality of the thing comes the heavily US influenced set of terms, many of which are wrongly extracted from the practice of the US armed forces of today or the recent past. Since I am more than passingly familiar with military organization in several noteworthy countries,
I venture this generalization.


Also, not enough of you are familiar with real military organizations in the past, especially, in the age of total war, in which a sort of planned chaos was quite normal,
especially in the transition from an authoritarian bureaucracy to the all horizons chaos in Germany in the final stages of the war.

[Max Ostendorff]

Also, just out of curiosity: Why is the exact date so significant?

For re-enacting improvement. Let's sat: one may wear "M43" for the early winter (e.g. January or February) event, but what if it's wrong and "M43" was invented in summer? Just for the example, of course.

And what with this date - March,23, 1943? It's a real date of scalloping dissapearing?