What color brown was the original SA/SS brownshirt?

[dimitrov2012]

Siehe da.

"1920s

Oxford cotton is a breathable and robust basket-weave cloth (panama weave for those with a little extra material knowledge). Pre-1930s, polo players wore oxford cotton shirts during matches – the collars had buttons in order to avoid them flapping around during matches but this is now seen across a whole host of shirt designs."

Your observations of the button down, collared Lettow shirt are quite valid.

The possibility that it was a sports shirt and not designed for military creates a very interesting counter-viewpoint.

Your experience wearing sport shirts as well, has caused me to compare the Lettow shirt to just about any other military or paramilitary uniform shirts

This photo of Himmler wearing the shirt shows the buton down collar as well as the 'collarbone' buttons, seen above the pockets



This photo shows several SA men with those 'collarbone' buttons fastened, perhaps to spread the shirt collar wider. I've never seen this before, have you? Visible here also is the unusual upper sleeve cut. Do you think its purpose was to lengthen the sleeves?



Heres a look at one of the lower (not easily seen) buttons, near the waist, which appears to hook onto a loop meant to possibly support the breeches



I'd be interested in yours, Wilhelm's, Bob's or anyone else's opinion on your sports shirt observation. Sports shirt, or military shirt?

[dimitrov2012]

I had tried to find similarity between the colonial uniforms and the Lettow Shirt, but couldnt find any design similarity. Even tho the story is the shirts were meant to be shipped to Lettow..maybe they represented a totally new design for his troops.

its unusual array of pearloid buttons and upper sleeve cut just didnt align with any other military uniforms.

In addition, a close examination of the Schutztruppen uniforms shows absolutely no parallels to their tropical uniforms and the Lettow shirt. There just seems to be no connection from the colonial troops end. not even close. This just deepens the mystery

[dimitrov2012]

It may be that, in reality, the so called Lettow shirts were just sports shirts, and they dreamed up the story to make themselves more war like and manly.

After all, if they dressed in sport shirts (and that is what the button down collar was for, and I know, because I have worn a button down collar for decades...)

that sounds a lot less Wehrverband like than here is my paramilitary bunch of rowdies, and we are dressed like foot ball players.

Lettow Vorbeck became a radical right wing figure at an early date, and the early Nazis were publicity hounds, at pains to distinguish themselves for all the

other un demobilized soldiers knocking the crap out of each other and everyone else in benighted postwar Central Europe. The recent literature on said
point is very strong. No one was better at public relations than Schickelgruber himself, and the NSDAP was pretty insignificant when all of this got going,
and the period of your interest, 1926-7, was the period in which Weimar Germany did its best.

Do bear with my skepticism, but everything has to be treated with a grain of salt.

I read all the breathy crap about the uniform in UM and such, and the uniform was an important weapon in the Kampfzeit, which
these people were at pains to invest with magical importance and so forth.Attachment 1049038Attachment 1049039Attachment 1049041Attachment 1049042Attachment 1049043

Lettow shirt: Schuttztruppen reserve uniform? Mid-20's sportshirt stockpile?

[dimitrov2012]

This is what van Eekeling says, and I take it with a grain of salt, too.....Attachment 1049045

My German is very little, can you synopsize this page for us?

[dimitrov2012]

But I do not think this source answers your question about the color of the shirt and so forth. It merely locates him and such.

The other early history of the NSDAP and SA is treated in several shelves of very good books that have appeared since the 1950s until the present day.

the source gives a date in 1924 that Hitler officially approved the shirt during a visit from someone while he was in Landsberg prison.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

My German is very little, can you synopsize this page for us?

It is the entirely ordinary, breathy account of the year in which Hitler was in Landsberg, and the SA dissolved or not,
and so forth. The title is what matters to you and me, that is, how the brown shirt was quickly made into an object of martyrdom,
when, in reality, it may likely have been little more than a rag or gym clothes to those who saw it at the time.

Once more, please do not take this wrong, but you won't find what you want here. You will only find it in sound, primary sources.

I do not know where magic items are located, but you need to speak German to get the pay dirt and you need to dig into archival sources.

I have not really seen a brown shirt posted I thought was of the type you desire, and, myself, I have secured what I deem to be
very rare items and so forth. I keep an eye on the SA, but not as do Wim or Bob Coleman or some others.

There is a collector on the other site (the paranoid site) who is an advanced SA collector in California, USA, whom some know here, maybe
he can help you and so on. Maybe Bob Coleman knows him. Bob Coleman is a very advanced SA collector.

That is no easy task, but that is where your answer lies. There are many young scholars in Germany who have addressed the Nazi
uniform in its variety as a serious historical topic.

- - ------- - -

My German is very little, can you synopsize this page for us?

I will let one of my friends possibly address this task, as my time is limited and I have offered a lot here already.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Moreover, I am sure there are those who have deepened themselves in 1920s clothing in Germany in a general sense. My specialty, as you can see here,
is one species of black uniform, worn more or less, for less than a decade, which nonetheless bulks greatly in the visual record of the III. Reich.
I do not know where you find the person who specializes in sports clothing of the 1920s, but that person exists, and maybe more so than some old coot
who collects old black jackets with dead heads.
Good luck. Do tell us what you find.

A telephone specialist took apart Hitler's red telephone just now and analyzed the benighted thing down to its last screw.

God knows, I do this with black caps and black jackets, but that is not much, surely in the whole range of what intrigues us.

My contrarian hypothesis concerns the dismemberment of much Nazi propaganda, since we are experiencing a similar age of alternate facts and so forth.

And I shall leave it all at that.

[Friedrich-Berthold]

You need them, but they look up at us from some dark part of Hades, I imagine, and cuss me out.

[dimitrov2012]

Moreover, I am sure there are those who have deepened themselves in 1920s clothing in Germany in a general sense. My specialty, as you can see here,
is one species of black uniform, worn more or less, for less than a decade, which nonetheless bulks greatly in the visual record of the III. Reich.
I do not know where you find the person who specializes in sports clothing of the 1920s, but that person exists, and maybe more so than some old coot
who collects old black jackets with dead heads.
Good luck. Do tell us what you find.

A telephone specialist took apart Hitler's red telephone just now and analyzed the benighted thing down to its last screw.

God knows, I do this with black caps and black jackets, but that is not much, surely in the whole range of what intrigues us.

My contrarian hypothesis concerns the dismemberment of much Nazi propaganda, since we are experiencing a similar age of alternate facts and so forth.

And I shall leave it all at that.

I've admired your specialty uniform for a very long time. I had been trying to determine its specific date of introduction, in 1932

[Friedrich-Berthold]

I've admired your specialty uniform for a very long time. I had been trying to determine its specific date of introduction, in 1932

Thanks. I think it is when the prohibition on the SA and SS is lifted in the summer of 1932 and or the publication of SA dress regulations and so forth also in 1932, but I won't swear to it. Wim offers the date in his book. He and others know the sources inside out. I have never looked closely.

And so forth. What I know for certain is that Boss did not design it, but Holters is said to have helped design "the SA uniform," which I take to mean
the 1932 jacket, whereby the black SS tunic might go into the mix, as well. That is, the evidence is in UM as to Holter's early role in the party uniform.
There is a lot of cronyism with old fighters in all of this.

Wim and d'Alquen are the people with the files for all of this, and I aver to them.