A Sedge Of Cranes - Robert Klaas

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Tom, glad to have you here on the forum and thanks for showing these great daggers.

Cheers, Ade.

[Degens]

It can be quite hard sometimes to distinguish between the first initial crossguard and the slightly later version ( both can be found matched with slant grips ). I have always used 2 key areas to determine one from the other. The later version normally has much larger swirls on both quillions and the inner wings area either side of the eagles head are clearly circular, compared to the flatter angled steps on the Klaas 1st.
I am starting to come to the conclusion that the detailing argument is a myth. I have seen both types heavily hand enhanced, with standard enhancing and somewhat bland in appearance. I am interested as well Tom to see some detailed shots of the crossguards on those first 3, to see if they comply with my observations.
I have been collecting pictures of Klaas crossguards for quite a time and have a large database of early examples, so please if you have one, it would be great for you to share and advance our understanding of the production differences.

FYI: I also think both examples shown on page 47 of a popular publication are in fact both 2nd type cross-guards.

Jon

[T Kendall]

Jon thanks I remember some time back when I proposed the idea that Klaas had two early crossguards and we discussed some differences and began to study them closer and in fact it’s clear now they did. Like you the thought the earliest Klaas crossguards showed no enhancing is quite opposite the norm but as you pointed out its interesting you see all levels of enhancing on these guards from none to extreme. Only one scenario (guess) I can think of is perhaps they offered different levels of detail work and charged accordingly? Its apparent to me these company’s had some sort of guidelines to the type-style of detail work they preformed An example is Klaas always used the scabbard asterisk and most of the time a punched eye - if you study Pack you will see the same detail features over and over. How weyersberg used the half moon eye detail on their initial production WKC 1st fitted daggers and the big Cyclops eye on the later patterns and many other examples of obviously company mandated or preferred patterns of detail work (hand enhancing) It really interests me that many new discoveries are waiting to be made in the army dagger field the last year has brought many new discoveries your discovery of the Pack type-2 the discovery of the (new) Klaas type-1 my debut recently of the WKC 1.5 the new unattributed (generic ?) crossguard on the VOOS and perhaps not new but the classification of the generic type-3 previously a crossguard perhaps a few people even knew existed. Stay tuned for the detail shots of the sedge of cranes.
One point regarding Klaas that’s a new revelation the earliest daggers have the tiny dome head screws (Credit Heers68) at some point transitioned to the bigger flatter screws.

[heers68]

Great thread here folks! Thanks for the plug Tom, your collection is THE library of EARLY Heers on line!

Jon, no doubt your sight covers the full range of Heers better than any other and your knowledge is imense!! I have referenced your sight many times and learned alot!

Tom, Your trio of initial Klaas slants is a staggering accomplishment.. So hard to find these! I am, as you know working on closing a deal on my first Klaas type 1 slant, and look forward to adding to this thread. I think the big difference that I use to differentiate between the type 1 and 2 Klaas guards is the huge wreath on the second guard with the "pedestal" that the Swaz sits on (one of the biggest wreaths I have seen on a heer). I know you have commented on this before to...Kevin.